This is so exhausting. My husband, pro choice husband, can’t keep up on this. Talking Sunday news today. I said these abortion bans are killing women, this mother in Georgia is tragic. He says he heard she died of “something else.” I had to remind him of “that time, after Nola, you held my hand, I needed antibiotics from an IV, the doctor had to make sure everything was out.” That’s a D&C. That’s all she needed to LIVE! He was there with me and couldn’t put this together! He’s a bright guy, a partner at his firm…said “Oh”
I cannot even fathom the amount of state-sanctioned deaths coming out of Texas, that we will likely never even hear about because of Ingrid Skop… hell, she might even have the power to stop anyone from even looking into maternal deaths from delayed care
Both of the GA deaths were preventable. Anyone that wants to blame women for the deaths and complications is so much of a low life that I don't even have words for them. We must absolutely vote these a holes out of office if they are politicians, and call them out every damn time they open their mouths to disrespect women.
I'm profoundly disgusted and very angry with these people. There WILL be consequences for them.
We must continue to push back, hard, against this. It is absolutely abhorrent that in an advanced wealthy country, we have archaic laws that are killing women and putting them at risk if they don't die, causing such grief and fear and making it quite obvious that in their eyes, women are second class citizens. That women are actually going to ER's and getting turned away (that part makes me soooo angry i could spit nails-I'm a retired ER nurse-it's against EMTALA, the anti patient dumping law), and being left to their own devices, scared, alone. I can't even fathom this. If I could, I'd ask every one of these legislators "Are you proud of yourself? Their blood is on your hands. If you say you are pro life, look in the eyes of every woman that you have hurt, maimed and killed. Stop it already with those words. You are sadistic freaks that are hurting women, in the name of God/Jesus and life. You need to look in the mirror, for you have made a serious misjudgment and misreading of the true message of Jesus. We will vote you out. I hope you find yourself with a crisis of conscience and profound self loathing for what you have wrought on the women of this nation. You have no business being in government."
Bear with me, this may seem unconnected to abortion, but it’s not. Thom Hartmann’s latest newsletter has a stunning explanation of the intent behind Speaker Mike Johnson’s SAVE act. Because the GOP is aware of the magnitude of the anger women have towards them since the Dobbs decision, they have created the SAVE act to deny possibly 90% of women their right to vote.
From Thom:
And what will the law require citizens who want to vote do? Lacking a passport or other proof of citizenship with their married names, they must produce both a birth certificate (with the seal of the state where it was issued; no copies allowed) and a current form of identification — both with the exact same name on them. That could instantly disqualify about 90 percent of all married women without passports or other proof that matches their birth certificates or proof of a legal name change.
Undermining the integrity of our election system is not the solution to the religious hysteria surrounding abortion. The people sneaking into our country are more likely to oppose abortion than any US citizen, male or female. Why is it that it has never occurred to the same people who want to police the movement of people involved in moving women, citizens, across state lines that they might apply the same enforcement with better justification to illegal immigrants?
" ... Amber’s death was absolutely preventable ... "
Forgive me if this has been covered before, but doesn't this expose doctors to wrongful death lawsuits due to negligence?
Imagine this. A man graduates from med school and works his way to becoming an ob/gyn. Ten years into his practice, (begun several years before Dobbs,) he's faced with the life or death decision that can ruin said career and put him in prison or can save a life.
He wants to leave his newly restricted red state and practice elsewhere, and his house is on the market, but it's impractical to simply stop practicing or seek other employment over fear, so he keeps it up and hopes for the best.
Fast forward a few months after Dobbs and he finds himself facing an unfortunate patient needing his exprtise. As he struggles with his oath vs the new laws, he recommends the patient wait in the parking lot, where she later passes away. He's wracked with guilt and questions his judgment and motivations.
Her family files a wrongful death lawsuit and what's the doctor's best excuse? "I was afraid," is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Compounding his dilemma is the State which claims, "Contrary to this doctor's erroneous belief, abortion is NOT 'banned' in this state."
What could this doctor have done differently as the post-Dobbs environment and its ramifications unfolded, knowing this situation could potentially come up? Hoping for the best is not a strategy.
The Guardian points out this essential: Thurman was murdered because the law is written to punish women if they take any agency in their reproductive health. We cannot let that go unreported.
"But Georgia’s abortion ban outlawed the D&C procedure, making it a felony to perform except in cases of managing a 'spontaneous' or 'naturally occurring' miscarriage. Because Thurman had taken abortion pills, her miscarriage was illegal to treat. She suffered in a hospital bed for 20 hours, developing sepsis and beginning to experience organ failure. By the time the Georgia doctors were finally willing to treat her, it was too late."
This is incredibly important! GA has imposed the death penalty - without trial - for self managed abortion. When a person is caught in the act of a crime and stopped by the police shooting them, they are immediately taken to the hospital and efforts are made to save them so that they can face justice. This is completely reprehensible!
Tonight at KH event: Amber Thurman's mother in the video in the tweet.
I think this story needs more publicity because it clearly illustrates that even pre-Roe when abortion was illegal, procedures like D&C were available and they are not now because doctors fear the wrath of extreme laws leading to preventable deaths.
Chaos, confusion, and fear leading to preventable deaths, poverty, and destitution, that is what stupid trump and his Red state ghouls have wrought on women. This is a clear case of 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' about the fuckers in the SCOTUS -- that has to be the drumbeat everyday.
Which was Lawrence’s point. And he is correct, many Catholic priests were at the forefront of helping women pre-Roe. There were also sepsis floors in NY hospitals. It’s really insane those doctors waited that long. I have to wonder if they were waiting on legal to respond to admin. Who owns /runs the hospital?
I looked at the Lawrence O'Donnell video here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UGmM8ETvNo and see no reference to anything about Catholic priests being at the forefront of helping women pre-Roe. What could you possibly be talking about? There are transcripts at the YouTube post so you don't have to sit through all 43 minutes to see.
I agree that the msnbc anchor’s response was moving but like Jessica I’m concerned at the distinction. The only difference between a D and C is intent and judgement. The fetus is already dead or dying so you deserve an abortion but sluts who can’t keep their legs closed don’t. I can’t help but feel that even though that was not this journalist’s intent, we are still determining which women deserve care and which don’t based on our internalized sexism.
In his video Lawrence says that "D&C has nothing to do with abortion. Nothing." This is not true. Before mifepristone, D&C or vacuum was the only way to get an abortion. If the pregnancy is late enough, it still is the only way to go, or vacuum. In any case, some kind of physical intrusion is necessary. Hormones won't do it.
If you are referring to Lawrence, I don't think he was making that distinction that some deserve it more than others. His point was that a routine D&C that was available even pre-Roe for miscarriages and other complications are now unavailable because doctors fear jail and loss of license as result of these extreme laws. His comments were in the context of Amber Thurman and how her death was preventable and I am sure he supports full repro freedom.
I agree. Plus, how many male TV personalities have taken this cause and spoken forcefully, emotionally & almost angry for women about reproductive healthcare? I found myself thankful for his show.
The Kansas City Clarity YouTube channel has footage up from the new Planned Parenthood location in western Kansas. Some of the protesters we see in Kansas City drive in from western Kansas, so they started showing up even before the place opened. It’s a mixed blessing - they’re not bugging us anymore, but where they are, it’s even harder to get counter-protesters/clinic defenders/escorts than here in the metro.
Which brings me to my traditional plea: we need you. This is happening in your area too unless you’re somewhere abortion services are banned completely, either literally or effectively. The reason the other side gets catered to is because they SHOW UP. They make noise, cause commotion, draw attention to their cause. We don’t. I can’t tell you how many Saturday mornings my sister and I have faced down anywhere from a half dozen to 50-60 of them, all by ourselves. That needs to change.
GET INVOLVED. WE NEED YOU. You CAN make a difference, just by being there.
I assume you meant “saved” rather than “shared” in your last paragraph re Lawrence zO’Donnell? ! I had not watched that episode but did listen to most of his podcast … he was fired up and angry about so-called exceptions .. how male Republican legislators don’t care about women, don’t trust them, and are responsible for killing them. Had as a guest GA US Sen Warnock, wonderful as usual. I will look up the show, thank you
I’ve watched 3 different clips of him today and am stunned. Did not mince words. He should literally be the ONLY male journalist/politician/figurehead allowed to talk about abortion.
I don't want to be crassly insensitive, but since this is a war: of the seven swing states - and there really are only 7 that anyone expects to be contested - Georgia has by far the most restrictions on reproductive health care. Which is to say, goddamnit these deaths should matter! North Carolina comes in second and I'd be surprised if women weren't dying there too. I think Arizona has a 15-week ban ? and the others don't have post-Dobbs restrictions. (There are plenty of post-Roe restrictions, everywhere). Now obviously people in Pennsylvania should care if women are dying in Texas, but.....? Does the threat resonate? The two red states where we need to re-elect Democratic senators to have a chance at holding that chamber are in the same boat: Ohio and Montana, where you can still kind of sort of get care. All of which is to say, the states where women are dying the most are so fucking red that they're going to vote Republican anyway, while the states where the election is going to be decided are mostly freer, right now. Excepting Georgia and North Carolina, where may no death be in vain. 💔
FL is actually in play, as is North Carolina. I live in GA, and it's definitely in play. Lots and lots of people are fired up down here, and many people one might expect to vote Republican, are looking away from that party because of the abortion bans. Let's keep the megaphones going, talking about the results of those abortion bans, over and over.
If people in the blue states paying any attention, they should understand the risk of a federal ban. The timing of the release of these stories from Georgia will hopefully raise awareness during the runup to the election.
Yes, the sane ones will. Those fucking forced birthers don't give a fuck, and blame the victims of their cruelty! They are absolutely ignorant, fucking lunatics, who need to get pushed back under their rocks! GRRR!
Thurman’s mom & 2 sisters were in the audience and spoke. Very moving. They are brave and should be lifted with love. Apparently this report provided new news to them.
My copy of ‘Abortion: Our Bodies, Their Lies and the Truths We Use to Win’ arrived today!
Thank you! I will be passing it on to one of my nieces next week… 😉
This is so exhausting. My husband, pro choice husband, can’t keep up on this. Talking Sunday news today. I said these abortion bans are killing women, this mother in Georgia is tragic. He says he heard she died of “something else.” I had to remind him of “that time, after Nola, you held my hand, I needed antibiotics from an IV, the doctor had to make sure everything was out.” That’s a D&C. That’s all she needed to LIVE! He was there with me and couldn’t put this together! He’s a bright guy, a partner at his firm…said “Oh”
I cannot even fathom the amount of state-sanctioned deaths coming out of Texas, that we will likely never even hear about because of Ingrid Skop… hell, she might even have the power to stop anyone from even looking into maternal deaths from delayed care
Both of the GA deaths were preventable. Anyone that wants to blame women for the deaths and complications is so much of a low life that I don't even have words for them. We must absolutely vote these a holes out of office if they are politicians, and call them out every damn time they open their mouths to disrespect women.
I'm profoundly disgusted and very angry with these people. There WILL be consequences for them.
We must continue to push back, hard, against this. It is absolutely abhorrent that in an advanced wealthy country, we have archaic laws that are killing women and putting them at risk if they don't die, causing such grief and fear and making it quite obvious that in their eyes, women are second class citizens. That women are actually going to ER's and getting turned away (that part makes me soooo angry i could spit nails-I'm a retired ER nurse-it's against EMTALA, the anti patient dumping law), and being left to their own devices, scared, alone. I can't even fathom this. If I could, I'd ask every one of these legislators "Are you proud of yourself? Their blood is on your hands. If you say you are pro life, look in the eyes of every woman that you have hurt, maimed and killed. Stop it already with those words. You are sadistic freaks that are hurting women, in the name of God/Jesus and life. You need to look in the mirror, for you have made a serious misjudgment and misreading of the true message of Jesus. We will vote you out. I hope you find yourself with a crisis of conscience and profound self loathing for what you have wrought on the women of this nation. You have no business being in government."
Bear with me, this may seem unconnected to abortion, but it’s not. Thom Hartmann’s latest newsletter has a stunning explanation of the intent behind Speaker Mike Johnson’s SAVE act. Because the GOP is aware of the magnitude of the anger women have towards them since the Dobbs decision, they have created the SAVE act to deny possibly 90% of women their right to vote.
From Thom:
And what will the law require citizens who want to vote do? Lacking a passport or other proof of citizenship with their married names, they must produce both a birth certificate (with the seal of the state where it was issued; no copies allowed) and a current form of identification — both with the exact same name on them. That could instantly disqualify about 90 percent of all married women without passports or other proof that matches their birth certificates or proof of a legal name change.
Apparently NOW https://now.org/resource/voter-suppression-targets-women-youth-and-communities-of-color-issue-advisory-part-one/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email is on to this strategy, but I haven’t seen any other MSM cover this.
Undermining the integrity of our election system is not the solution to the religious hysteria surrounding abortion. The people sneaking into our country are more likely to oppose abortion than any US citizen, male or female. Why is it that it has never occurred to the same people who want to police the movement of people involved in moving women, citizens, across state lines that they might apply the same enforcement with better justification to illegal immigrants?
" ... Amber’s death was absolutely preventable ... "
Forgive me if this has been covered before, but doesn't this expose doctors to wrongful death lawsuits due to negligence?
Imagine this. A man graduates from med school and works his way to becoming an ob/gyn. Ten years into his practice, (begun several years before Dobbs,) he's faced with the life or death decision that can ruin said career and put him in prison or can save a life.
He wants to leave his newly restricted red state and practice elsewhere, and his house is on the market, but it's impractical to simply stop practicing or seek other employment over fear, so he keeps it up and hopes for the best.
Fast forward a few months after Dobbs and he finds himself facing an unfortunate patient needing his exprtise. As he struggles with his oath vs the new laws, he recommends the patient wait in the parking lot, where she later passes away. He's wracked with guilt and questions his judgment and motivations.
Her family files a wrongful death lawsuit and what's the doctor's best excuse? "I was afraid," is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Compounding his dilemma is the State which claims, "Contrary to this doctor's erroneous belief, abortion is NOT 'banned' in this state."
What could this doctor have done differently as the post-Dobbs environment and its ramifications unfolded, knowing this situation could potentially come up? Hoping for the best is not a strategy.
The Guardian points out this essential: Thurman was murdered because the law is written to punish women if they take any agency in their reproductive health. We cannot let that go unreported.
"But Georgia’s abortion ban outlawed the D&C procedure, making it a felony to perform except in cases of managing a 'spontaneous' or 'naturally occurring' miscarriage. Because Thurman had taken abortion pills, her miscarriage was illegal to treat. She suffered in a hospital bed for 20 hours, developing sepsis and beginning to experience organ failure. By the time the Georgia doctors were finally willing to treat her, it was too late."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/19/georgia-abortion-ban
This is incredibly important! GA has imposed the death penalty - without trial - for self managed abortion. When a person is caught in the act of a crime and stopped by the police shooting them, they are immediately taken to the hospital and efforts are made to save them so that they can face justice. This is completely reprehensible!
It’s barbaric.
Can they not get Netflix, Amazon, or any other platform to pick up Red White and Blue? Is there a way for those who want to watch it to access it?
Tonight at KH event: Amber Thurman's mother in the video in the tweet.
I think this story needs more publicity because it clearly illustrates that even pre-Roe when abortion was illegal, procedures like D&C were available and they are not now because doctors fear the wrath of extreme laws leading to preventable deaths.
Chaos, confusion, and fear leading to preventable deaths, poverty, and destitution, that is what stupid trump and his Red state ghouls have wrought on women. This is a clear case of 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' about the fuckers in the SCOTUS -- that has to be the drumbeat everyday.
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1836932929660067934
Which was Lawrence’s point. And he is correct, many Catholic priests were at the forefront of helping women pre-Roe. There were also sepsis floors in NY hospitals. It’s really insane those doctors waited that long. I have to wonder if they were waiting on legal to respond to admin. Who owns /runs the hospital?
I looked at the Lawrence O'Donnell video here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UGmM8ETvNo and see no reference to anything about Catholic priests being at the forefront of helping women pre-Roe. What could you possibly be talking about? There are transcripts at the YouTube post so you don't have to sit through all 43 minutes to see.
I had never heard the phrase “sepsis floors”. What a fucking nightmare. These extremists want to take us back to THAT?
Jessica, where can we watch Red, White & Blue??
How can we get a showing im our City ( Dayton ) or our state (Ohio)
I agree that the msnbc anchor’s response was moving but like Jessica I’m concerned at the distinction. The only difference between a D and C is intent and judgement. The fetus is already dead or dying so you deserve an abortion but sluts who can’t keep their legs closed don’t. I can’t help but feel that even though that was not this journalist’s intent, we are still determining which women deserve care and which don’t based on our internalized sexism.
In his video Lawrence says that "D&C has nothing to do with abortion. Nothing." This is not true. Before mifepristone, D&C or vacuum was the only way to get an abortion. If the pregnancy is late enough, it still is the only way to go, or vacuum. In any case, some kind of physical intrusion is necessary. Hormones won't do it.
If you are referring to Lawrence, I don't think he was making that distinction that some deserve it more than others. His point was that a routine D&C that was available even pre-Roe for miscarriages and other complications are now unavailable because doctors fear jail and loss of license as result of these extreme laws. His comments were in the context of Amber Thurman and how her death was preventable and I am sure he supports full repro freedom.
I agree. Plus, how many male TV personalities have taken this cause and spoken forcefully, emotionally & almost angry for women about reproductive healthcare? I found myself thankful for his show.
Yes. His is the only show I can watch. He goes after the press and the media and gives unvarnished truth about trump. He is on our side.
JFC it's the exact same procedure! Fuck those people that want to stick their nose in every body's genitals!
It is still worth noting that O'Donnell chose to open his show with such strong remarks.
Lawrence O’Donnell has been a consistent and strong supporter of choice and has covered abortion better than some of the women anchors on MSNBC.
The Kansas City Clarity YouTube channel has footage up from the new Planned Parenthood location in western Kansas. Some of the protesters we see in Kansas City drive in from western Kansas, so they started showing up even before the place opened. It’s a mixed blessing - they’re not bugging us anymore, but where they are, it’s even harder to get counter-protesters/clinic defenders/escorts than here in the metro.
Which brings me to my traditional plea: we need you. This is happening in your area too unless you’re somewhere abortion services are banned completely, either literally or effectively. The reason the other side gets catered to is because they SHOW UP. They make noise, cause commotion, draw attention to their cause. We don’t. I can’t tell you how many Saturday mornings my sister and I have faced down anywhere from a half dozen to 50-60 of them, all by ourselves. That needs to change.
GET INVOLVED. WE NEED YOU. You CAN make a difference, just by being there.
https://youtube.com/@kansascityclarity
We also need state legislators to offer bills that push these people as far away from buildings as possible.
I assume you meant “saved” rather than “shared” in your last paragraph re Lawrence zO’Donnell? ! I had not watched that episode but did listen to most of his podcast … he was fired up and angry about so-called exceptions .. how male Republican legislators don’t care about women, don’t trust them, and are responsible for killing them. Had as a guest GA US Sen Warnock, wonderful as usual. I will look up the show, thank you
I’ve watched 3 different clips of him today and am stunned. Did not mince words. He should literally be the ONLY male journalist/politician/figurehead allowed to talk about abortion.
I don't want to be crassly insensitive, but since this is a war: of the seven swing states - and there really are only 7 that anyone expects to be contested - Georgia has by far the most restrictions on reproductive health care. Which is to say, goddamnit these deaths should matter! North Carolina comes in second and I'd be surprised if women weren't dying there too. I think Arizona has a 15-week ban ? and the others don't have post-Dobbs restrictions. (There are plenty of post-Roe restrictions, everywhere). Now obviously people in Pennsylvania should care if women are dying in Texas, but.....? Does the threat resonate? The two red states where we need to re-elect Democratic senators to have a chance at holding that chamber are in the same boat: Ohio and Montana, where you can still kind of sort of get care. All of which is to say, the states where women are dying the most are so fucking red that they're going to vote Republican anyway, while the states where the election is going to be decided are mostly freer, right now. Excepting Georgia and North Carolina, where may no death be in vain. 💔
FL is actually in play, as is North Carolina. I live in GA, and it's definitely in play. Lots and lots of people are fired up down here, and many people one might expect to vote Republican, are looking away from that party because of the abortion bans. Let's keep the megaphones going, talking about the results of those abortion bans, over and over.
If people in the blue states paying any attention, they should understand the risk of a federal ban. The timing of the release of these stories from Georgia will hopefully raise awareness during the runup to the election.
Yes, the sane ones will. Those fucking forced birthers don't give a fuck, and blame the victims of their cruelty! They are absolutely ignorant, fucking lunatics, who need to get pushed back under their rocks! GRRR!
Oprah and VP Harris talking about reproductive rights tonight.
https://youtu.be/yz9o1D54E18?si=oztNAQTiLbR3ET7a
Thurman’s mom & 2 sisters were in the audience and spoke. Very moving. They are brave and should be lifted with love. Apparently this report provided new news to them.