OK, but state's rights have so far avoided national laws when they violate state constitutions. Also. cannabis. While cannabis is illegal by federal law, states can implement their own laws, business owners just cannot access federal banking. I'm not sure why states haven't set up their own state insured banking but I don't really know how that works - but if we had health care providers who can legally practice in the state but not the country, it would be even more necessary to set up banking institutions that exist only in the state.
And while the gov't might insist it will enforce the federal law across any state that legalized or has constitutionally protected health care for women, it would be probably the final blow to the constitution - making the president a king pretty much did it, but overriding state's rights would just.. well at that point once this admin falls we will actually be in a better place to revise it which has been necessary for decades. So Im not convinced about the efficacy of the ban across all states, because I highly doubt, given the massive cuts to the civil service planned, they even *could* arrest every abortion provider across the nation and prosecute them!
Remember this — you can say nothing. The next time you are asked when your last period was, Smile and say nothing. If you are asked what your sex at birth was, Smile and say nothing. Quiet women can rebel and the patriarchy will either strike you or shut up. Either way it is a win
2 ends of the spectrum here. My 24 year old daughter takes birth control for hormonal acne and I take HRT for menopausal symptoms. Should either of us be concerned about the availability of these products and is there anything we can do to be proactive for ourselves
the educated v. uneducated (as in lacking wisdom and sophistication) divide. If it is not clear yet, the uneducated motherfuckers sold this country to Putin. A world of hurt is coming to everyone.
They are planning to shut down the government on Dec 20.
Cornyn is saying if he is the senate chair he will keep the senate open to confirm cabinet members. And, he has the audacity which you will see more of, to say to Dems, "you can cooperate in the best interest of the country or continue the resistance, which will eventually be ground down." Look at the language, he is saying to trump crowd, he fits in. lots of threats like these from these congress critters and others. Talk to your reps. Show them you are aware.
While I agree that Congress could do a great deal of mischief under authority granted it by the Commerce Clause (e.g., banning interstate transportation of abortion drugs, supplies, and equipment), my reading of Dobbs is that it PRECLUDES Congress from enacting a nationwide, statutory ban on abortion. [See Congressional Research Service, "Congressional Authority to Regulate Abortion," CRS Legal Sidebar, July 8, 2022.]
This is because:
1. Congress may only enact legislation under a specific power enumerated in the Constitution, and cannot act beyond the scope of its powers to intrude on state sovereignty.
2. The states’ broad authority is subject only to limitations imposed by the Supremacy Clause [Article VI], which makes federal law “the Supreme Law of the Land” and prohibits states from contravening the Constitution or lawful congressional enactments.
3. Dobbs holds that “[t]he Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including…the Due Process Clause [Section 1] of the Fourteenth Amendment.” [597 U.S. 215 (2022), p. 5.]
4. The Tenth Amendment reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states. The Supreme Court has interpreted this amendment as prohibiting Congress from “commandeering” such powers. [See Murphy v. NCAA, 584 U.S. 453 (2018). Writing for the majority, Justice Alito rejected the argument that the anti-commandeering doctrine only applies to affirmative congressional commands, as opposed to when Congress prohibits certain state action. Finding the distinction between affirmative requirements and prohibitions empty, the Court held that both types of commands equally intrude on state sovereign interests.]
5. Therefore, unless and until Dobbs is overturned, the authority to regulate abortion rests solely with the states and Congress may neither mandate nor prohibit a national right to abortion. [“We end this opinion where we began. Abortion presents a profound moral question. The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion. Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives [i.e., state legislatures].” Alito, J. writing for the majority in Dobbs. 597 U.S. 215 (2022), pp. 78-9.] Bracketed clarification mine.
Consequently, Congress has no authority to enact a nationwide abortion ban. Any such statute could be challenged as unconstitutional under the Tenth Amendment. And, given the Court’s ruling in Murphy v. NCAA (with its majority opinion written by Justice Alito), it is virtually certain to rule in favor of the plaintiffs on anti-commandeering grounds.
This also means, however, that if a national right to abortion is to be restored, it must address the constitutional obstacles to doing so.
One option that should be considered is for President Biden to direct the National Archivist to certify the Equal Rights Amendment as the 28th Amendment AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but no later than leaving office. This is justified because: (1) the ERA has been approved by the requisite 38 states and (2) there is no CONSTITUTIONAL limit on the time allowed to ratify an amendment. [See Allison Held et al., “The Equal Rights Amendment: Why the ERA Remains Legally Viable and Properly Before the States,” William & Mary Journal of Women and the Law, Spring 1997.] And, in any case, who cares if it's potentially illegal? As a legitimate exercise of core executive power, it cannot be challenged as being illegal. Let MAGA choke on the SCOTUS decision in Trump v. U.S.
The Dobbs decision could then be appealed back to the SCOTUS, on the basis that the ERA provides the constitutional authority for a woman's right to privacy and control over her own body that the Court failed to find in the Constitution as it currently reads.
This is really great, logical and detailed, but I think SCOTUS is now making it up out of whole cloth. They haven’t even been consistent lately in explaining their decisions. I’m not sure they won’t allow a nationwide ban by declaring personhood for fetuses.
I do think Biden should certify the ERA but he hasn’t shown any appetite for helping women. We women seem to have had a perfect storm of the wrong president (devoutly Catholic) and weak DOJ (has Garland done ANYTHING to protect us?). I’m only aware of lawsuits supported by organizations run by women trying to protect our rights…
Agree I think the SC will just move the goalposts. They seem to make decisions first to enforce a christian conservative perspective and then post hoc legal reasoning follows to justify their decision.
Just because we're afraid of what SCOTUS MIGHT do is no reason not to take every action to preserve a possible constitutional right to abortion. There is NO HARM and potentially GREAT BENEFIT from Biden ordering the National Archivist to certify the ERA. Otherwise, it will take a NEW constitutional amendment, which has ZERO chance of getting out of BOTH houses of Congress followed by the approval of 38 STATES. Biden can -- and must -- do this as an OFFICIAL act, thereby making it UNCHALLENGEABLE pursuant to SCOTUS's decision on presidential immunity. (Trump v. U.S.)
It's time for Democrats to stop bringing pen knives to gun fights. It's not our role to worry about possible legal challenges. JUST DO IT.
People are trying to get the ERA published before Biden leaves office. We’re being asked to send a letter or postcard to Biden ON DECEMBER 15th urging him to publish the ERA. ADDRESS: President Biden, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW; Washington, DC 20500. The phone # for the White House is 202-456-1111 (Call and leave a message). Maybe it will make a difference. I’ve already contacted my Senators and Congressman.
I assume by "published" they mean having it certified by the National Archivist. As I understand the process, that is the step needed to make it official. When Barr was AG, the DOJ issued an opinion that, because the deadline specified by Congress in the measure's proposing clause had passed, it was too late to certify. However, an AG opinion, while carrying some weight, is not the same as legal precedent. And because (1) the Constitution specifies no time frame for the adoption of constitutional amendments, (2) the deadline specified in the proposing clause (not in the measure itself) is arguably invalid, and (3) the amendment has the approval of 48 states, one can argue that the N.A. can legally certify the ERA as being adopted.
If Trump can have legal immunity from prosecution for illegally ordering the DOJ to participate in a conspiracy to overturn election results, I don't see why Biden shouldn't have legal immunity from prosecution for ordering the N.A. to certify the ERA (even if the order is found to be illegal).
totally agree. Now, it will be appealed and the SCOTUS will do whatever it's paid to do, but I think appealing an amendment constitutionally is quite difficult. the power of it can be totally gutted though just like civil rights was. OTH, they really will do whatever they want. Biden absolutely should order certification of the ERA though and I DO. NOT F*CKING KNOW WHY HE HAS NOT!!!!!!! and forget Garland he's a trump plant anyway - again, responsibility for Garland lands on Biden. it's Biden's fault trump and his cronies were protected for the past 4 years.
Write to your Congress Reps and ask them in particular to put the blame for this nightmare squarely on the Republican party (which is the truth) so we can weaken their actions and reactions. I just wrote an email to my rep. As a strategy, this will hopefully work to put them on notice and to educate the public that the Republicans are responsible for enabling this autocrat. Lots of people I have spoken to in my neighborhood are worried - one person showed me the book he had just got, Anne Applebaum's 'Autocracy Inc.'.
I think the majorities in MO, MT, NE, AZ? that enacted abortion rights (also FL) will give the federal ban proponents some pause, especially in swing districts and the Senate.
Relatedly, I predict we’ll see efforts to undermine the new protections by prosecutors and maybe courts in some of these places.
I wish that powers that be Biden, Harris, Waltz, Pelosi, media figures et al. went on shows and talked about the constitution and rule of law and what is absolutely NOT permissible by the incoming administration, and what to watch for, just to put a target on all the questionable actions and plans that will be forthcoming. Put them on notice that if they went ahead in this direction, the public knows what they are doing.
On the other side of the coin: if some states have stricter abortion bans than the national ban states, do they also have to follow the national law? For example, if the government passes a ban at 15 weeks, and FL has a ban of 6 weeks, does FL now have to honor 15 weeks?
Yes. Federal overrides state, just like Roe overrode all those 1800 laws on the books of some states. {edited: going to leave the comment here but I am not sure, see comment below from Ray Reinhard}
See my comment above. I disagree. My reading of Dobbs is that it explicitly places authority for regulating abortion SOLELY with the states. Further, any attempt by Congress to enact a national abortion ban would run afoul of the Tenth Amendment, which SCOTUS has interpreted as prohibiting Congress from "commandeering" states' sovereign powers.
So a national 15-week ban would limit blue states further but allow red states to set even stricter bans ? That’s how I’ve always understood it. A national ban is the GOP strategy to push their shit in states that don’t vote for it.
Nancy Pelosi is blabbing to NYT saying Biden should have left early and a primary would have helped. Nope. Not even a white man would have helped. The time to stop him was in 2016 but Comey and 'but her emails' media was busy otherwise. After/during his first term, the Republican party was the next to stop him but they didn't because of their cowardice and lack of patriotism - they sold the country to Pootie. Now in 2024, the electorate who have been brainwashed for the last decade by the Party gave even more legitimacy to the traitor, and sold the country, lock, stock, and barrel to Pootie. There were missteps by all but the glaring mistake is that of the Republican party which sold the soul of this country knowingly to Pootie. There is no easy way to get back to normal after this.
Oh the traitor-elect when he gets to the WH will wreck our economy hurting the most gullible of the electorate that voted for him -- his affluent supporters will be fine for a while but not for long. He will kill ACA because he does not like its other name - he might steal it and rename it if he is feeling kindish. He will not mass deport but will definitely put those people in camps enriching his friends -- private prison stock was up. Jessica is keeping us up to date about the looming issue that concerns this forum. Those are some of the obvious ones. Add your own to the killer menu.
I am sick to my stomach everyday, and have a hard time with hope these days. I was watching Smerconish this morning, and Scott Galloway was a guest... Their discussion was about how men have it so hard, are ignored. That men are struggling, need better jobs, and are unhappy, etc. I had to turn it off. Women are literally dying and having our rights taken away! I want to curl up in a ball. I do not see light at the end of the tunnel. But thank you for keeping up the fight.
they are SUCH WHINERS!!! they got outcompeted by us so now they are getting their revenge and kneecapping us instead of getting it together and competing the way the rest of us have to!! they want women and POC out of the way so they can have their privileges back. we out graduated them from high school, college, and grad school. I say it past tense because obviously that is ending. like all of the GOP actions, the only way they can do anything is through cheating. LOSERS.
If it makes anyone feel better, they won't ban birth control and they won't have a national ban. The who reason all this started was because they know it's wrong for it to be a federal law and they threw it back to the states. All these doctors letting girls die from sepsis are being overdramatic bastards that need to be sued for malpractice. How does a healthy pregnancy cause sepsis though? When anyone's life is in danger no matter the problem it is illegal for them to not treat you. Even if a person with any kind of medical license sees a car wreck they are required to get out and make sure they help anyone in distress until paramedics get there. My mom was an LPN and she told me they can take your license away if they find out some how that you didn't stop to help. I don't know how how true it is but what is the truth about anything these days? How did we get to this point in time where even the people who are supposed to be truthful or helpful are lying to us? A time where doctors that have access to more medical knowledge than the rest of us are pushing genetic material as a vaccine that turns the person into a factory making the protein that is the harmful part of the virus it's supposed to protect you against.... abortion is necessary until it's used as a form of birth control. But these reasons these doctors are turning people away aren't abortion related. And it's ridiculous that doctors are letting people die because they are confused about that. They should know better if they actually went to school and all that. Just saying
Oh poor Steph (if that is your real name), love the added nod of “some people are saying” and clearly you have done your own research on those “vaccines and doctors” and you “are just asking questions here” but I hate to tell you that not all pregnancies are “healthy.” And medical decisions are not made just by doctor “bastards” but by hospital lawyers and administrators with oversight committees and sometimes a hospital is Catholic. But glad you have contributed to the AED SS.
Baloney. The reason Roe was overturned was not because they cared about throwing it back to the states. They wanted it gone and throwing it back is the first step. Next is the national ban. They’ve called for a national ban.
And no one uses abortion as a form of birth control.
How did we get here? 50 years of ideological nut cases culminating in the biggest liar of them all - Trump- appointing the 3 justices who lied under oath to subjugate women. That’s how.
yep. but we got here because of women's rights, and the loss of privilege to women and people of color. the kkk became evangelical pastors, first to fight against the rights of black Americans, and then to fight the rights of women. This is why the religious right is evangelical, and the southern Dixiecrats became Republicans. They don't care about abortion, they care about women having gained independence (and outcompeting them at every level because they are stupid and lazy and refuse to keep up and compete fairly - sorry, but true.)
Sorry, you've been brainwashed. They are trying to ban birth control. Medical personnel are under threat of losing their licenses and being put in jail. If you educate yourself, you'll find it's the lawyers and the hospital administrators who deny them the ability to do what they know to do. They do what they can. Some are coming up with ways to circumvent the laws. Did your Mom work in L&D or ER? Has she read the abortion ban laws. No - okay, she doesn't know what's happening, and as an LPN wouldn't have had as much authority to know of the medical decisions physicians are making. And, what in the hell is a vaccine "that turns the person into a factory making the protein...". Obviously, you also know nothing about how vaccines are made or function. Neither does JFK Jr who wants to ban all vaccines. He doesn't provide factual proof of anything - just gobbledegook others like him write. That'll work out great when you talk about medical providers not being able to do their duty to protect children. Children will die by the thousands in the US if vaccines are outlawed. Read about Diphtheria epidemics with the high death numbers before the vaccine was developed. Such stupidity of the conspiracists - in JFK's case only to grift. There may be conspiracies out there but it's with people like Trump and JFK. They make millions off those who believe their lies.
If you're worried about people not upholding their oath of medicine, why not go after the legislators all practicing medicine without licenses in their abortion bans. Almost every single one of the legislators, and their anti-abortion zealots pushing them, do not have medical degrees, or even NP or RN degrees, and have never been in L&D, nor an ER. Please, educate yourself. Buy a medical obstetrical book, or one about abortion - a good one is Jessica's, or read Abortion in the Age of Unreason by Warren Hern MD, an actual medical physician.
I don't think you're paying attention. Glad to know you know better about the state laws than all the doctors and their hospital lawyers who decided NOT to treat the women who were miscarrying or otherwise needed an abortion until they were about to die. Guess all those lawyers were wrong and you were right?
I'd love to come back and say how wrong you are when they ban birth control and abortions - or at least try - but you will be long gone by then, off to annoy other message boards.
To all lawyers in this group, please let me know if this is a possible argument. I stand with all my sisters and brothers who are horrified that our country elected racist rapist as president. Unfortunately, I can't change this election, but I may be able to limit the damage he will do. He will make the FDA outlaw medical abortion.I may have a legal way to mitigate the damage. I remember 20+ years ago when the FDA was dragging its feet approving RU-486 (one of the two drugs used in medical abortion), California's governor instructed our public health department to review the data and determine if the drug should be legal in California. I still think that FDA approved RU-486 because the federal government didn't want to have a fight around the Commerce clause. I'm not a lawyer, just a retired medical researcher, but this might be a good argument for keeping medical abortion legal in coastal states.
This is a good question. I am not sure of the answer but I think it depends on whether Congress has pre-empted state authority to approve drugs. Absent federal law, a state should have authority to approve whatever drugs it wants to for use in the state. The question is whether the legislation empowering the FDA has pre-empted that authority. We would have to have a specialist in FDA legislation answer that one.
Considering how many states legalized marijuana for medical use against FDA classification, I'm pretty sure there isn't an explicit statute prohibiting states from approving drugs. Since the Constitution explicitly gives states all rights not specifically given to the federal government by the constitution, if there was such a statute, it should have been before the Supreme court by now.
OK, but state's rights have so far avoided national laws when they violate state constitutions. Also. cannabis. While cannabis is illegal by federal law, states can implement their own laws, business owners just cannot access federal banking. I'm not sure why states haven't set up their own state insured banking but I don't really know how that works - but if we had health care providers who can legally practice in the state but not the country, it would be even more necessary to set up banking institutions that exist only in the state.
And while the gov't might insist it will enforce the federal law across any state that legalized or has constitutionally protected health care for women, it would be probably the final blow to the constitution - making the president a king pretty much did it, but overriding state's rights would just.. well at that point once this admin falls we will actually be in a better place to revise it which has been necessary for decades. So Im not convinced about the efficacy of the ban across all states, because I highly doubt, given the massive cuts to the civil service planned, they even *could* arrest every abortion provider across the nation and prosecute them!
Remember this — you can say nothing. The next time you are asked when your last period was, Smile and say nothing. If you are asked what your sex at birth was, Smile and say nothing. Quiet women can rebel and the patriarchy will either strike you or shut up. Either way it is a win
Protect Your Privacy: 16 Tips to Shield Yourself From Online Tracking & Abortion Bounty Hunters
https://thedemlabs.org/2024/11/11/protect-your-privacy-16-tips-to-shield-yourself-from-online-tracking-abortion-bounty-hunters/
Thank you, Jessica!
2 ends of the spectrum here. My 24 year old daughter takes birth control for hormonal acne and I take HRT for menopausal symptoms. Should either of us be concerned about the availability of these products and is there anything we can do to be proactive for ourselves
the educated v. uneducated (as in lacking wisdom and sophistication) divide. If it is not clear yet, the uneducated motherfuckers sold this country to Putin. A world of hurt is coming to everyone.
They are planning to shut down the government on Dec 20.
Cornyn is saying if he is the senate chair he will keep the senate open to confirm cabinet members. And, he has the audacity which you will see more of, to say to Dems, "you can cooperate in the best interest of the country or continue the resistance, which will eventually be ground down." Look at the language, he is saying to trump crowd, he fits in. lots of threats like these from these congress critters and others. Talk to your reps. Show them you are aware.
Ryan O'Donnell
@rodonnell.bsky.social
looking at some unweighted dfp data by how much attention voters pay to political news
-a great deal: harris +8
-a lot: harris +5
-a moderate amount: trump +1
-a little: trump +8
-none at all: trump +15
While I agree that Congress could do a great deal of mischief under authority granted it by the Commerce Clause (e.g., banning interstate transportation of abortion drugs, supplies, and equipment), my reading of Dobbs is that it PRECLUDES Congress from enacting a nationwide, statutory ban on abortion. [See Congressional Research Service, "Congressional Authority to Regulate Abortion," CRS Legal Sidebar, July 8, 2022.]
This is because:
1. Congress may only enact legislation under a specific power enumerated in the Constitution, and cannot act beyond the scope of its powers to intrude on state sovereignty.
2. The states’ broad authority is subject only to limitations imposed by the Supremacy Clause [Article VI], which makes federal law “the Supreme Law of the Land” and prohibits states from contravening the Constitution or lawful congressional enactments.
3. Dobbs holds that “[t]he Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including…the Due Process Clause [Section 1] of the Fourteenth Amendment.” [597 U.S. 215 (2022), p. 5.]
4. The Tenth Amendment reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states. The Supreme Court has interpreted this amendment as prohibiting Congress from “commandeering” such powers. [See Murphy v. NCAA, 584 U.S. 453 (2018). Writing for the majority, Justice Alito rejected the argument that the anti-commandeering doctrine only applies to affirmative congressional commands, as opposed to when Congress prohibits certain state action. Finding the distinction between affirmative requirements and prohibitions empty, the Court held that both types of commands equally intrude on state sovereign interests.]
5. Therefore, unless and until Dobbs is overturned, the authority to regulate abortion rests solely with the states and Congress may neither mandate nor prohibit a national right to abortion. [“We end this opinion where we began. Abortion presents a profound moral question. The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion. Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives [i.e., state legislatures].” Alito, J. writing for the majority in Dobbs. 597 U.S. 215 (2022), pp. 78-9.] Bracketed clarification mine.
Consequently, Congress has no authority to enact a nationwide abortion ban. Any such statute could be challenged as unconstitutional under the Tenth Amendment. And, given the Court’s ruling in Murphy v. NCAA (with its majority opinion written by Justice Alito), it is virtually certain to rule in favor of the plaintiffs on anti-commandeering grounds.
This also means, however, that if a national right to abortion is to be restored, it must address the constitutional obstacles to doing so.
One option that should be considered is for President Biden to direct the National Archivist to certify the Equal Rights Amendment as the 28th Amendment AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but no later than leaving office. This is justified because: (1) the ERA has been approved by the requisite 38 states and (2) there is no CONSTITUTIONAL limit on the time allowed to ratify an amendment. [See Allison Held et al., “The Equal Rights Amendment: Why the ERA Remains Legally Viable and Properly Before the States,” William & Mary Journal of Women and the Law, Spring 1997.] And, in any case, who cares if it's potentially illegal? As a legitimate exercise of core executive power, it cannot be challenged as being illegal. Let MAGA choke on the SCOTUS decision in Trump v. U.S.
The Dobbs decision could then be appealed back to the SCOTUS, on the basis that the ERA provides the constitutional authority for a woman's right to privacy and control over her own body that the Court failed to find in the Constitution as it currently reads.
This is really great, logical and detailed, but I think SCOTUS is now making it up out of whole cloth. They haven’t even been consistent lately in explaining their decisions. I’m not sure they won’t allow a nationwide ban by declaring personhood for fetuses.
I do think Biden should certify the ERA but he hasn’t shown any appetite for helping women. We women seem to have had a perfect storm of the wrong president (devoutly Catholic) and weak DOJ (has Garland done ANYTHING to protect us?). I’m only aware of lawsuits supported by organizations run by women trying to protect our rights…
Agree I think the SC will just move the goalposts. They seem to make decisions first to enforce a christian conservative perspective and then post hoc legal reasoning follows to justify their decision.
Considering the decision in "Dobbs" went far beyond what was even asked for, yes.
Just because we're afraid of what SCOTUS MIGHT do is no reason not to take every action to preserve a possible constitutional right to abortion. There is NO HARM and potentially GREAT BENEFIT from Biden ordering the National Archivist to certify the ERA. Otherwise, it will take a NEW constitutional amendment, which has ZERO chance of getting out of BOTH houses of Congress followed by the approval of 38 STATES. Biden can -- and must -- do this as an OFFICIAL act, thereby making it UNCHALLENGEABLE pursuant to SCOTUS's decision on presidential immunity. (Trump v. U.S.)
It's time for Democrats to stop bringing pen knives to gun fights. It's not our role to worry about possible legal challenges. JUST DO IT.
People are trying to get the ERA published before Biden leaves office. We’re being asked to send a letter or postcard to Biden ON DECEMBER 15th urging him to publish the ERA. ADDRESS: President Biden, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW; Washington, DC 20500. The phone # for the White House is 202-456-1111 (Call and leave a message). Maybe it will make a difference. I’ve already contacted my Senators and Congressman.
I assume by "published" they mean having it certified by the National Archivist. As I understand the process, that is the step needed to make it official. When Barr was AG, the DOJ issued an opinion that, because the deadline specified by Congress in the measure's proposing clause had passed, it was too late to certify. However, an AG opinion, while carrying some weight, is not the same as legal precedent. And because (1) the Constitution specifies no time frame for the adoption of constitutional amendments, (2) the deadline specified in the proposing clause (not in the measure itself) is arguably invalid, and (3) the amendment has the approval of 48 states, one can argue that the N.A. can legally certify the ERA as being adopted.
If Trump can have legal immunity from prosecution for illegally ordering the DOJ to participate in a conspiracy to overturn election results, I don't see why Biden shouldn't have legal immunity from prosecution for ordering the N.A. to certify the ERA (even if the order is found to be illegal).
totally agree. Now, it will be appealed and the SCOTUS will do whatever it's paid to do, but I think appealing an amendment constitutionally is quite difficult. the power of it can be totally gutted though just like civil rights was. OTH, they really will do whatever they want. Biden absolutely should order certification of the ERA though and I DO. NOT F*CKING KNOW WHY HE HAS NOT!!!!!!! and forget Garland he's a trump plant anyway - again, responsibility for Garland lands on Biden. it's Biden's fault trump and his cronies were protected for the past 4 years.
Thanks Ray for your expertise here, OK.
Write to your Congress Reps and ask them in particular to put the blame for this nightmare squarely on the Republican party (which is the truth) so we can weaken their actions and reactions. I just wrote an email to my rep. As a strategy, this will hopefully work to put them on notice and to educate the public that the Republicans are responsible for enabling this autocrat. Lots of people I have spoken to in my neighborhood are worried - one person showed me the book he had just got, Anne Applebaum's 'Autocracy Inc.'.
I think the majorities in MO, MT, NE, AZ? that enacted abortion rights (also FL) will give the federal ban proponents some pause, especially in swing districts and the Senate.
Relatedly, I predict we’ll see efforts to undermine the new protections by prosecutors and maybe courts in some of these places.
Florida's protection bill didn't pass by the voters. they were mislead.
I wish that powers that be Biden, Harris, Waltz, Pelosi, media figures et al. went on shows and talked about the constitution and rule of law and what is absolutely NOT permissible by the incoming administration, and what to watch for, just to put a target on all the questionable actions and plans that will be forthcoming. Put them on notice that if they went ahead in this direction, the public knows what they are doing.
On the other side of the coin: if some states have stricter abortion bans than the national ban states, do they also have to follow the national law? For example, if the government passes a ban at 15 weeks, and FL has a ban of 6 weeks, does FL now have to honor 15 weeks?
Yes. Federal overrides state, just like Roe overrode all those 1800 laws on the books of some states. {edited: going to leave the comment here but I am not sure, see comment below from Ray Reinhard}
See my comment above. I disagree. My reading of Dobbs is that it explicitly places authority for regulating abortion SOLELY with the states. Further, any attempt by Congress to enact a national abortion ban would run afoul of the Tenth Amendment, which SCOTUS has interpreted as prohibiting Congress from "commandeering" states' sovereign powers.
Oh OK. That fucking Alito! But this would save the blue states then.
So a national 15-week ban would limit blue states further but allow red states to set even stricter bans ? That’s how I’ve always understood it. A national ban is the GOP strategy to push their shit in states that don’t vote for it.
right but there is a national law prohibiting cannabis and that has not stopped states from making it legal.
Nancy Pelosi is blabbing to NYT saying Biden should have left early and a primary would have helped. Nope. Not even a white man would have helped. The time to stop him was in 2016 but Comey and 'but her emails' media was busy otherwise. After/during his first term, the Republican party was the next to stop him but they didn't because of their cowardice and lack of patriotism - they sold the country to Pootie. Now in 2024, the electorate who have been brainwashed for the last decade by the Party gave even more legitimacy to the traitor, and sold the country, lock, stock, and barrel to Pootie. There were missteps by all but the glaring mistake is that of the Republican party which sold the soul of this country knowingly to Pootie. There is no easy way to get back to normal after this.
Oh the traitor-elect when he gets to the WH will wreck our economy hurting the most gullible of the electorate that voted for him -- his affluent supporters will be fine for a while but not for long. He will kill ACA because he does not like its other name - he might steal it and rename it if he is feeling kindish. He will not mass deport but will definitely put those people in camps enriching his friends -- private prison stock was up. Jessica is keeping us up to date about the looming issue that concerns this forum. Those are some of the obvious ones. Add your own to the killer menu.
Agree!!
I am sick to my stomach everyday, and have a hard time with hope these days. I was watching Smerconish this morning, and Scott Galloway was a guest... Their discussion was about how men have it so hard, are ignored. That men are struggling, need better jobs, and are unhappy, etc. I had to turn it off. Women are literally dying and having our rights taken away! I want to curl up in a ball. I do not see light at the end of the tunnel. But thank you for keeping up the fight.
they are SUCH WHINERS!!! they got outcompeted by us so now they are getting their revenge and kneecapping us instead of getting it together and competing the way the rest of us have to!! they want women and POC out of the way so they can have their privileges back. we out graduated them from high school, college, and grad school. I say it past tense because obviously that is ending. like all of the GOP actions, the only way they can do anything is through cheating. LOSERS.
Smerconish is a smug, pompous, poseur, with very little intellectual heft.
They did recruit the angry Incels to punish women they voted for the oleaginous orange blob in droves.
You’re not alone. Try to hang on to that.
I would like you to be discussing the tracking of women's fertility and the consequences this can have.
If it makes anyone feel better, they won't ban birth control and they won't have a national ban. The who reason all this started was because they know it's wrong for it to be a federal law and they threw it back to the states. All these doctors letting girls die from sepsis are being overdramatic bastards that need to be sued for malpractice. How does a healthy pregnancy cause sepsis though? When anyone's life is in danger no matter the problem it is illegal for them to not treat you. Even if a person with any kind of medical license sees a car wreck they are required to get out and make sure they help anyone in distress until paramedics get there. My mom was an LPN and she told me they can take your license away if they find out some how that you didn't stop to help. I don't know how how true it is but what is the truth about anything these days? How did we get to this point in time where even the people who are supposed to be truthful or helpful are lying to us? A time where doctors that have access to more medical knowledge than the rest of us are pushing genetic material as a vaccine that turns the person into a factory making the protein that is the harmful part of the virus it's supposed to protect you against.... abortion is necessary until it's used as a form of birth control. But these reasons these doctors are turning people away aren't abortion related. And it's ridiculous that doctors are letting people die because they are confused about that. They should know better if they actually went to school and all that. Just saying
Every statement you made does not reflect reality. Read Henri's reply, he's actually on the ground in this crisis.
Oh poor Steph (if that is your real name), love the added nod of “some people are saying” and clearly you have done your own research on those “vaccines and doctors” and you “are just asking questions here” but I hate to tell you that not all pregnancies are “healthy.” And medical decisions are not made just by doctor “bastards” but by hospital lawyers and administrators with oversight committees and sometimes a hospital is Catholic. But glad you have contributed to the AED SS.
Baloney. The reason Roe was overturned was not because they cared about throwing it back to the states. They wanted it gone and throwing it back is the first step. Next is the national ban. They’ve called for a national ban.
And no one uses abortion as a form of birth control.
How did we get here? 50 years of ideological nut cases culminating in the biggest liar of them all - Trump- appointing the 3 justices who lied under oath to subjugate women. That’s how.
Now it’s a holy mess.
yep. but we got here because of women's rights, and the loss of privilege to women and people of color. the kkk became evangelical pastors, first to fight against the rights of black Americans, and then to fight the rights of women. This is why the religious right is evangelical, and the southern Dixiecrats became Republicans. They don't care about abortion, they care about women having gained independence (and outcompeting them at every level because they are stupid and lazy and refuse to keep up and compete fairly - sorry, but true.)
Yes. I think they will achieve a national ban through fetal personhood. These people are rabid.
And their brains are rancid.
Sorry, you've been brainwashed. They are trying to ban birth control. Medical personnel are under threat of losing their licenses and being put in jail. If you educate yourself, you'll find it's the lawyers and the hospital administrators who deny them the ability to do what they know to do. They do what they can. Some are coming up with ways to circumvent the laws. Did your Mom work in L&D or ER? Has she read the abortion ban laws. No - okay, she doesn't know what's happening, and as an LPN wouldn't have had as much authority to know of the medical decisions physicians are making. And, what in the hell is a vaccine "that turns the person into a factory making the protein...". Obviously, you also know nothing about how vaccines are made or function. Neither does JFK Jr who wants to ban all vaccines. He doesn't provide factual proof of anything - just gobbledegook others like him write. That'll work out great when you talk about medical providers not being able to do their duty to protect children. Children will die by the thousands in the US if vaccines are outlawed. Read about Diphtheria epidemics with the high death numbers before the vaccine was developed. Such stupidity of the conspiracists - in JFK's case only to grift. There may be conspiracies out there but it's with people like Trump and JFK. They make millions off those who believe their lies.
If you're worried about people not upholding their oath of medicine, why not go after the legislators all practicing medicine without licenses in their abortion bans. Almost every single one of the legislators, and their anti-abortion zealots pushing them, do not have medical degrees, or even NP or RN degrees, and have never been in L&D, nor an ER. Please, educate yourself. Buy a medical obstetrical book, or one about abortion - a good one is Jessica's, or read Abortion in the Age of Unreason by Warren Hern MD, an actual medical physician.
You’re at the wrong rally. RFKJr is down the street.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🎯You win the internet for today!
I don't think you're paying attention. Glad to know you know better about the state laws than all the doctors and their hospital lawyers who decided NOT to treat the women who were miscarrying or otherwise needed an abortion until they were about to die. Guess all those lawyers were wrong and you were right?
I'd love to come back and say how wrong you are when they ban birth control and abortions - or at least try - but you will be long gone by then, off to annoy other message boards.
Are you an antiabortion activist? You sound like one 🐺
To all lawyers in this group, please let me know if this is a possible argument. I stand with all my sisters and brothers who are horrified that our country elected racist rapist as president. Unfortunately, I can't change this election, but I may be able to limit the damage he will do. He will make the FDA outlaw medical abortion.I may have a legal way to mitigate the damage. I remember 20+ years ago when the FDA was dragging its feet approving RU-486 (one of the two drugs used in medical abortion), California's governor instructed our public health department to review the data and determine if the drug should be legal in California. I still think that FDA approved RU-486 because the federal government didn't want to have a fight around the Commerce clause. I'm not a lawyer, just a retired medical researcher, but this might be a good argument for keeping medical abortion legal in coastal states.
This is a good question. I am not sure of the answer but I think it depends on whether Congress has pre-empted state authority to approve drugs. Absent federal law, a state should have authority to approve whatever drugs it wants to for use in the state. The question is whether the legislation empowering the FDA has pre-empted that authority. We would have to have a specialist in FDA legislation answer that one.
Considering how many states legalized marijuana for medical use against FDA classification, I'm pretty sure there isn't an explicit statute prohibiting states from approving drugs. Since the Constitution explicitly gives states all rights not specifically given to the federal government by the constitution, if there was such a statute, it should have been before the Supreme court by now.