Looked up the median price of a c-section in 2022 was about $36,000. Between $22,000 in Louisiana and Mississippi to $59,000 in New York and New Jersey.
I am ourtraged. Aside from the greater risks, longer recovery, and all subsequent births having to be by C-section, women will die because of this, and these legislators will have the blood on their hands. While I want to sympathize with doctors who feel forced into the position of performing major surgery rather than the simpler and much safer evacuation process, I cannot. These doctors violate their oath to do no harm when they make the choice to proceed with a higher risk C-section. A woman in my family nearly died from a very common mishap of C-sections and post-op complications. This insanity has to stop.
Since a C-section is done really, really fast, especially if it is a hair-on-fire emergency & there is no time for spinal anesthesia, so the Mom has to be given general anesthesia; there is not a small chance of the scalpel nicking the bladder. I’ve personally known of that happening fairly frequently. Rare, but still a possibility, would be to nick a hole in the bowel, with the ensuing risk of sepsis.
I'm totally confused about this because ectopic pregnancies are like 100% fatal and they aren't performing an abortion when the remove that.... And they do it with one of those precise things that go in through a half inch incision.. I think they still do it that way.... But if a fetus is not developed enough and it does the only time doctors would do all the c section stuff is if there is something dangerous or life threatening to the mother. Otherwise they just leave it alone and let you go in to labor naturally. And the statement about turning women with cancer away that's just not happening.. the women may have gone to obstetricians and were referred to oncologists but it's illegal to turn anyone away without treatment like that. They will actually start you on chemo without talking to you about it first but they can't refuse people with cancer. I'm trying to think of a scenario as an example... We're there not actually pregnant and maybe had one of the fast growing tumors that have hair and teeth maybe? They aren't trained to remove that and if it's done incorrectly you risk the cancerous cells going everywhere.. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm genuinely curious because my mother was a nurse and she forced me to go to work with her so picked up on a lot of that stuff. I've also had 3 kids 2 of which were emergency C-section. In those cases they usually don't have time to discuss anything. And sometimes it's life or death for the woman more than the child for them to do that. But they have to because if you refuse someone in the US you lose your license just as fast as if you performed an abortion....
Steph- women are absolutely being refused chemotherapy for cancer if they are pregnant in states with bans & at Catholic hospitals even in states where abortion remains legal. Pregnant women are not being prescribed medications that they may need for other conditions like heart disease if that medication could possibly cause a spontaneous abortion
And where did you get the idea that doctors would start anyone on chemo
“without talking to them about it?” Without talking to them about what? Of course they’re going to explain everything about your cancer & all the treatment options available to you There’s no way that’s happening.
Catholic hospitals don’t deal with ectopic pregnancies. They turn women away because they won’t perform life-saving abortions. It happened to me in 1994. Somehow we continue to allow this.
Did you read the report linked in the article. Maybe that will help you understand how the GOP led hate crimes against women are circumventing what has up until now, been standard medical practice. Nothing is what it once was.
This C-section barbarism got some attention on Ali Velshi last night as well as trump's 15 week (wink wink full) ban. trump is a major problem for 2024 but if you listen to Sen. Whitehouse, the barbarians have captured the SCOTUS (and the state legislatures). It will take a long concerted effort (of voting for Ds) everywhere to neutralize the damage these people are causing.
Absolutely correct ✅ & think of the disaster if Trump or ANY Republican for that matter is elected; Thomas & Alito have hinted that they are ready to retire, so I’d T is elected, they will retire & T will hastily appoint the youngest far right jurists to take their places. Think about Kacsmyrick & Ho being on the scotus for the next 40 yrs!!!!!
Soromayor wants to retire, so we really need Dems in the WH & a majority in the Senate so that she can be replaced with a younger liberal.
As they say: Elections have consequences, life altering consequences
I frequently read a video log of a Finnish woman and just yesterday saw a candid video of hers about her first pregnancy, her fears and anxieties about the birth in general and c-sections in particular. This led me to think while child birth and motherhood are highly romanticized, it is also a time fraught with uncertainties for a woman affecting her physical and mental health and c-sections are no joke, starting with the anesthetic via the spine. And to make that procedure the norm and to add all these other hurdles from laws made by neanderthals is barbaric. Like others I ask why the medical community is silent about these issues.
I don't think they can do that. C Sections might be performed a lot anymore but they are still classified as major surgery so they don't like to do those unless the absolutely have no other choice. And the epidural isn't their favorite thing either because of the risks involved. So I think someone will either be slapped with a malpractice suit or they are pulling someone's leg. But then again they did silence and gaslight people with the mRNA shots so maybe they have turned over a new leaf?
Nobody was gaslighting anyone about the mRNA vaccines. Epidural analgesia & spinal anesthesia are super common & quite safe & certainly not “disliked” by any surgeons or anesthesiologists that I’ve ever worked with. As a matter of fact, spinal analgesia is very commonly now being used for abdominal surgeries such as colon resections, etc & the spinal catheter is left in place for 24-48 hrs post-op for pain management. It’s really great bc you can get the pt up & walking without them being in too much pain.
As to C-sections only being done as a last resort; I wish I could say that was true, but unfortunately here in America, that’s not always the case.
They are often done for the Drs convenience, bc they’d rather go ahead & do a cs at 7pm on a pt who has been laboring for many hrs & isn’t progressing, than to let her continue to labor & then get called back at 11pm for a delivery or cs.
I’m not casting aspersions on all OB/GYNs, I’m just passing on information that it does happen. The U.S. has a higher percentage of cs done than other wealthy nations. Part of that is due to our litigious society. A Dr isn’t going to be sued for doing a cs too soon, but if they wait too long & there is a bad outcome for the infant, they will definitely be sued.
As horrible as Donald Trump is, he is still a single individual. There are hundreds of legislators across the country try their damndest to hurt women and children. These horrible draconian abortion laws are about control. They are a form of sexual violence; they are abuse, not to mention abuse of power.
I don't think Trump has a say in that. Because it wasn't supposed to be about the subject of the case as much as it was about not having one standard for a medical procedure on the federal level. I guess they just took it and ran with it or something . They were supposed to put it in a ballot in every state and allow we the people to vote for it.
to let the people decide by that Dobbs decision. That was a red herring to make it sound palatable. They meant let the Legislatures decide & of course they never even really meant that. Their intent has ALWAYS been to been to enact a national total abortion ban.
You cannot trust anything that the anti abortion people say!! They lie
I wonder if there are any survivors groups being formed? There are already so many victims and their loved ones. I think it might make sharing the stories easier than speaking out alone. And there would be a network to defend against retribution.
Dropping this here again because people need to know that there are complications from c-sections:
FYI: C-section is surgery requiring spinal tap for anesthesia preformed in an operating room and requiring overnight hospitalization. My stay was 3 nights, and I had a complication called seroma, an accumulation of fluid which leaked & occasionally gushed out of my incision for weeks, which delayed healing. I didn’t fully recover from the surgery for 6 months. I required narcotic pain relief for almost 2 months.
It's different than a spinal tap and I feel like it's worse than one of those.... But if you don't mind my asking what was the reason for your C-section? I've had 2 and couldn't walk or feel my legs for almost 24 hours but the first one was because the cord was wrapped around my son's neck so many times he would have died if they didn't and the second was because I had something called placenta accreta and I I was bleeding to death. They had to give me a partial hysterectomy at the same time because I was bleeding out. I think he said he gave me something like 3 units of blood.. those are reasons they do c Sections but they really don't like to do that unless there's no other choice. So I can't see them doing c sections unless there was a legitimate reason. They don't remove babies that have died in the womb at all, they have the mother carry it and go into labor naturally. My cousin had a still born baby and I thought it was kinda fucked up how they handle that.... But yeah c sections are no joke and they aren't anything anyone would choose I don't think...
My c-section was because my baby’s heart rate kept dipping too low, after the surgery I was told the cord was wrapped around his neck too many times for him to slip through. Without emergency surgery he would probably have died, & if not, suffered brain damage from anoxia. Today he has a master’s degree in mechanical engineering and is working to assure that our nuclear weapons do not accidentally detonate. I’m glad they saved my baby, and while the gushing of seroma frightened me at first, I thought I was going to die & went into shock. I’d do it again to have my baby. But no one should have to go through that instead of having a 10 minute D&E which only requires IV pain reliever, what’s called conscious sedation, doesn’t require a surgical room, no overnight stays in the hospital, no risk of complications from shoving a needle into your spine. This is already being done to women/girls in some states. It’s not theoretical.
Jessica, I work for a very large healthcare organization that has a group dedicated to pushing issues of equity forward and have difficult conversations to advocate for patients. They seem to discuss everything except abortion and it makes me crazy. Do you know if you or someone else would be available to possibly speak at an event? Your newsletter today perfectly illustrates why healthcare organizations need to be loudly addressing these issues. I am appalled by their silence.
Please, if you truly want to be involved & help go to Abortion Access Front website & do their Operation Save Abortion online interactive classes.
Do them with a group of like-minded friends if you can. Also check out their Action Calendar for things that are happening in your area that you can get involved in.
Listen to or watch on YT the podcast
Feminist Buzzkills , you’ll LOVE it!!!
They are kickass abortion activists & also funny as shit. They have great guests on & they give you so many ways to get involved.
Does anyone know what treatment for miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy was like pre-Roe in the US? Were physicians able to rely on their professional judgement to provide reproductive health care without political interference?
I had a miscarriage in the 1980’s and the treatment was a D&C (Dilation and Curettage) to avoid the risk of hemorrhaging or complications of any remaining parts left not discharged by my body. That was the terminology my doctor used to explain the procedure to me. He never called it an “abortion”. I think the healthcare industry needs to stop using abortion as the diagnosis code for all these life saving procedures and start coding differently. I fail to understand why this isn’t already happening.
Because we are sick & tired of the word abortion being demonized!! It is a normal procedure. The exact same procedure is used for either an abortion or for a D&C following a miscarriage. I started my career as an RN in the OR when still a student in 1974. The words we used on the pt’s chart as the diagnosis for why the D&C was being done was: Missed AB or
missed abortion, we didn’t write the word miscarriage.
We want the word de-stigmatized, it is not a dirty word
Based on the books that I've been reading over the past few months related to women's healthcare, abortion and miscarriage - before Roe (1973) and after Roe (1973): if a woman was having a miscarriage she went to the emergency room for a D&C. There were not any issues from the doctors or the Christian radicals. The Christian radical Taliban didn't have a problem with abortion up until roughly 1980 anyway. That's another story.
All of this state, Republican sanctioned suffering for C-sections is very new. I suspect there are nurses and doctors on this platform who could chime in further.
We are regressing back to the 11th century. Pretty soon they'll have us in Chastity belts, under the guise that it's for "our protection"
And instead of c-sections they will go back to symphysiotomy, the method of choice for Catholic doctors in Ireland until as late as the 1980s. The chainsaw (a small version) was actually invented to cut open women's pelvises in cases of obstructed labor. It continued in Catholic hospitals well past the time when c-sections became comparatively more safe. Many women were permanently disabled by having their pelvises sawed open, but Catholic doctors reasoned that it protected their future fertility and prevented any medical need for contraception caused by a c-section damaging the womb. I guess now they don't care about those things.
I think we have come farther than that in medical practices. They probably didn't know you don't have to saw the baby out that long ago. But they would killed the mother in the process. There was no surviving a C-section of any kind until I think the early 1900s.
Did u read the article at all? or even the comment? It clearly states this horrific procedure was still being done up into the 1980s !!!! fcs I graduated RN school in 1976 & we did C-sections all the time; they weee already proven to be safe long ago
The Catholic run hospitals in Ireland persisted in symphysiotomy until the 1980s, with the objective of maximizing the number of future births for a woman. So yes, we have come further, but not when religious beliefs control women's healthcare.
Goddamn catholics. They have inflicted so much pain on women for the last 2000 years. Including funding and lobbying against our right to vote during suffrage. Absolutely nothing about them has changed even now they still do not support birth control.
Yes, at least in CA. I'm a labor and delivery nurse. We see patients who are 20 weeks and above. The patients who 19 6/7 weeks and below are seen in the ER. Our on call laborist is called to the ER to see pregnant patients within this gestational age range and they perform the appropriate procedure usually a dilation and curettage aka abortion.
Is it an abortion if the baby has died or there's been a miscarriage? I didn't think removing an ectopic pregnancy was abortion either? I don't know because it's obvious to anyone who has a brain that ectopic pregnancies have to be removed immediately but doctors are acting like it's an abortion now? This is getting off the charts crazy because it wasn't originally an attack on abortion...
Removal of my ectopic pregnancy in 1994 was considered an abortion by the Catholic hospital that refused to do the life-saving procedure. They still won’t help women with ectopic pregnancies. This has to change.
If there is no longer a fetal heartbeat or there has been a miscarriage where all of the products of conception have not been released by the woman's uterus an abortion is performed, i.e. a dilation and curettage for the miscarriage and also for an early loss of fetal heartbeat. If the pregnancy is further along and it is considered an IUFD (Intrauterine fetal demise) then that pregnancy would be induced with high doses of misoprostol in the hospital to remove the pregnancy from the uterus. This is also technically an abortion because it is an evacuation of the uterus. In this case the fetal body is delivered intact.
For an ectopic pregnancy a medication called Methotrexate is used to stop the growth of the fetal cells in the fallopian tube and then the products of conception will be released through heavy vaginal bleeding. Or a laparoscopic incision is made to remove the mass from the fallopian tube and to repair any damage to the tube. The Evangelical Christians have a problem with this because they think a doctor can remove the mass and put it in the uterus so that it can continue growing into a baby. That is not possible.
Thanks, Danielle. I'm relieved to know that women can still get appropriate care somewhere.
But my question was about reproductive care in the era before Roe of 1973. I fear that we've gone backwards since then and what was once seen as an obvious course of treatment no longer is.
There is an article called "DES' grisly legacy". It talks about the hormones doctors gave women between 1940s and 1960s to prevent miscarriage and the consequences of it in the offspring later in in life. But I don't know when they started doing d&c for miscarriage but if you think of how ignorant we were medically until like late 1800s early 1900s they probably just ordered bed rest
I think the reason for using DES was actually benign; a real attempt at preventing miscarriage and a belief in miracle drugs among the public.
Before the medical establishment elbowed out women care providers like midwives and doulas from childbirth, there was a lot of knowledge carried in traditional apprenticeships from practitioners to novices. Miscarriage and abortion care was most certainly within that spectrum.
Ahh, era before Roe. I misread your comment. I was born in 1973 so I don't have firsthand knowledge of this time. But being born in 1973 has its perks because when I wear my "1973" t-shirt it symbolizes 2 important milestones for me!
I don't know whether names and faces would get these stories the attention they deserve, but it seems that Americans can ignore data and statistics. There are a million reasons we don't want anyone to have to go public, but the people behind this torture, maiming, and murder are counting on that.
Seeing a person speak out about their experience like Dr. Dennard, Brittany Watts and Kate Cox does help with advocacy. Not everyone has the ability and is comfortable to speak out like this. I know more will eventually.
They're creating new victims daily. So I hope more can speak out. I just think it has a stronger effect that just statistics and anonymous reports, even though those should be more than horrific enough by themselves. It's harder to brush off a real person than a number, even though every number has a real person behind it.
Looked up the median price of a c-section in 2022 was about $36,000. Between $22,000 in Louisiana and Mississippi to $59,000 in New York and New Jersey.
Cost of abortion was between $600 and $1000.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cost+of+c-section+in+US&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
I am ourtraged. Aside from the greater risks, longer recovery, and all subsequent births having to be by C-section, women will die because of this, and these legislators will have the blood on their hands. While I want to sympathize with doctors who feel forced into the position of performing major surgery rather than the simpler and much safer evacuation process, I cannot. These doctors violate their oath to do no harm when they make the choice to proceed with a higher risk C-section. A woman in my family nearly died from a very common mishap of C-sections and post-op complications. This insanity has to stop.
Since a C-section is done really, really fast, especially if it is a hair-on-fire emergency & there is no time for spinal anesthesia, so the Mom has to be given general anesthesia; there is not a small chance of the scalpel nicking the bladder. I’ve personally known of that happening fairly frequently. Rare, but still a possibility, would be to nick a hole in the bowel, with the ensuing risk of sepsis.
I'm totally confused about this because ectopic pregnancies are like 100% fatal and they aren't performing an abortion when the remove that.... And they do it with one of those precise things that go in through a half inch incision.. I think they still do it that way.... But if a fetus is not developed enough and it does the only time doctors would do all the c section stuff is if there is something dangerous or life threatening to the mother. Otherwise they just leave it alone and let you go in to labor naturally. And the statement about turning women with cancer away that's just not happening.. the women may have gone to obstetricians and were referred to oncologists but it's illegal to turn anyone away without treatment like that. They will actually start you on chemo without talking to you about it first but they can't refuse people with cancer. I'm trying to think of a scenario as an example... We're there not actually pregnant and maybe had one of the fast growing tumors that have hair and teeth maybe? They aren't trained to remove that and if it's done incorrectly you risk the cancerous cells going everywhere.. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm genuinely curious because my mother was a nurse and she forced me to go to work with her so picked up on a lot of that stuff. I've also had 3 kids 2 of which were emergency C-section. In those cases they usually don't have time to discuss anything. And sometimes it's life or death for the woman more than the child for them to do that. But they have to because if you refuse someone in the US you lose your license just as fast as if you performed an abortion....
Steph- women are absolutely being refused chemotherapy for cancer if they are pregnant in states with bans & at Catholic hospitals even in states where abortion remains legal. Pregnant women are not being prescribed medications that they may need for other conditions like heart disease if that medication could possibly cause a spontaneous abortion
And where did you get the idea that doctors would start anyone on chemo
“without talking to them about it?” Without talking to them about what? Of course they’re going to explain everything about your cancer & all the treatment options available to you There’s no way that’s happening.
Catholic hospitals don’t deal with ectopic pregnancies. They turn women away because they won’t perform life-saving abortions. It happened to me in 1994. Somehow we continue to allow this.
Did you read the report linked in the article. Maybe that will help you understand how the GOP led hate crimes against women are circumventing what has up until now, been standard medical practice. Nothing is what it once was.
This C-section barbarism got some attention on Ali Velshi last night as well as trump's 15 week (wink wink full) ban. trump is a major problem for 2024 but if you listen to Sen. Whitehouse, the barbarians have captured the SCOTUS (and the state legislatures). It will take a long concerted effort (of voting for Ds) everywhere to neutralize the damage these people are causing.
Absolutely correct ✅ & think of the disaster if Trump or ANY Republican for that matter is elected; Thomas & Alito have hinted that they are ready to retire, so I’d T is elected, they will retire & T will hastily appoint the youngest far right jurists to take their places. Think about Kacsmyrick & Ho being on the scotus for the next 40 yrs!!!!!
Soromayor wants to retire, so we really need Dems in the WH & a majority in the Senate so that she can be replaced with a younger liberal.
As they say: Elections have consequences, life altering consequences
Why we must VOTE these people out and VOTE to keep them out.
This absolutely makes me sick. Women are being treated as less than human. I am enraged.
Right wingers spreading disinformation about birth control on social media. No paywall:
https://wapo.st/43uAW9W
Yes, haven’t read that article yet, but they are spreading it to the young people on TikTok, that the hormones in them have awful side effects.
I frequently read a video log of a Finnish woman and just yesterday saw a candid video of hers about her first pregnancy, her fears and anxieties about the birth in general and c-sections in particular. This led me to think while child birth and motherhood are highly romanticized, it is also a time fraught with uncertainties for a woman affecting her physical and mental health and c-sections are no joke, starting with the anesthetic via the spine. And to make that procedure the norm and to add all these other hurdles from laws made by neanderthals is barbaric. Like others I ask why the medical community is silent about these issues.
I don't think they can do that. C Sections might be performed a lot anymore but they are still classified as major surgery so they don't like to do those unless the absolutely have no other choice. And the epidural isn't their favorite thing either because of the risks involved. So I think someone will either be slapped with a malpractice suit or they are pulling someone's leg. But then again they did silence and gaslight people with the mRNA shots so maybe they have turned over a new leaf?
Nobody was gaslighting anyone about the mRNA vaccines. Epidural analgesia & spinal anesthesia are super common & quite safe & certainly not “disliked” by any surgeons or anesthesiologists that I’ve ever worked with. As a matter of fact, spinal analgesia is very commonly now being used for abdominal surgeries such as colon resections, etc & the spinal catheter is left in place for 24-48 hrs post-op for pain management. It’s really great bc you can get the pt up & walking without them being in too much pain.
As to C-sections only being done as a last resort; I wish I could say that was true, but unfortunately here in America, that’s not always the case.
They are often done for the Drs convenience, bc they’d rather go ahead & do a cs at 7pm on a pt who has been laboring for many hrs & isn’t progressing, than to let her continue to labor & then get called back at 11pm for a delivery or cs.
I’m not casting aspersions on all OB/GYNs, I’m just passing on information that it does happen. The U.S. has a higher percentage of cs done than other wealthy nations. Part of that is due to our litigious society. A Dr isn’t going to be sued for doing a cs too soon, but if they wait too long & there is a bad outcome for the infant, they will definitely be sued.
As horrible as Donald Trump is, he is still a single individual. There are hundreds of legislators across the country try their damndest to hurt women and children. These horrible draconian abortion laws are about control. They are a form of sexual violence; they are abuse, not to mention abuse of power.
I don't think Trump has a say in that. Because it wasn't supposed to be about the subject of the case as much as it was about not having one standard for a medical procedure on the federal level. I guess they just took it and ran with it or something . They were supposed to put it in a ballot in every state and allow we the people to vote for it.
There was never any “plan” or “ intent”
to let the people decide by that Dobbs decision. That was a red herring to make it sound palatable. They meant let the Legislatures decide & of course they never even really meant that. Their intent has ALWAYS been to been to enact a national total abortion ban.
You cannot trust anything that the anti abortion people say!! They lie
I wonder if there are any survivors groups being formed? There are already so many victims and their loved ones. I think it might make sharing the stories easier than speaking out alone. And there would be a network to defend against retribution.
I haven’t looked, but I’d bet there are on FB
Dropping this here again because people need to know that there are complications from c-sections:
FYI: C-section is surgery requiring spinal tap for anesthesia preformed in an operating room and requiring overnight hospitalization. My stay was 3 nights, and I had a complication called seroma, an accumulation of fluid which leaked & occasionally gushed out of my incision for weeks, which delayed healing. I didn’t fully recover from the surgery for 6 months. I required narcotic pain relief for almost 2 months.
Forced c-section is cruel and unusual punishment.
It's different than a spinal tap and I feel like it's worse than one of those.... But if you don't mind my asking what was the reason for your C-section? I've had 2 and couldn't walk or feel my legs for almost 24 hours but the first one was because the cord was wrapped around my son's neck so many times he would have died if they didn't and the second was because I had something called placenta accreta and I I was bleeding to death. They had to give me a partial hysterectomy at the same time because I was bleeding out. I think he said he gave me something like 3 units of blood.. those are reasons they do c Sections but they really don't like to do that unless there's no other choice. So I can't see them doing c sections unless there was a legitimate reason. They don't remove babies that have died in the womb at all, they have the mother carry it and go into labor naturally. My cousin had a still born baby and I thought it was kinda fucked up how they handle that.... But yeah c sections are no joke and they aren't anything anyone would choose I don't think...
My c-section was because my baby’s heart rate kept dipping too low, after the surgery I was told the cord was wrapped around his neck too many times for him to slip through. Without emergency surgery he would probably have died, & if not, suffered brain damage from anoxia. Today he has a master’s degree in mechanical engineering and is working to assure that our nuclear weapons do not accidentally detonate. I’m glad they saved my baby, and while the gushing of seroma frightened me at first, I thought I was going to die & went into shock. I’d do it again to have my baby. But no one should have to go through that instead of having a 10 minute D&E which only requires IV pain reliever, what’s called conscious sedation, doesn’t require a surgical room, no overnight stays in the hospital, no risk of complications from shoving a needle into your spine. This is already being done to women/girls in some states. It’s not theoretical.
Jessica, I work for a very large healthcare organization that has a group dedicated to pushing issues of equity forward and have difficult conversations to advocate for patients. They seem to discuss everything except abortion and it makes me crazy. Do you know if you or someone else would be available to possibly speak at an event? Your newsletter today perfectly illustrates why healthcare organizations need to be loudly addressing these issues. I am appalled by their silence.
I heard Jessica speak at my local Planned Parenthood event several months ago. She's a terrific speaker!
Thanks AED for doing the work! Having context and clarity goes a long way.
I feel physically ill. Every day is worse. How do we fix this?! How do we make people understand and see?! How?!
Please, if you truly want to be involved & help go to Abortion Access Front website & do their Operation Save Abortion online interactive classes.
Do them with a group of like-minded friends if you can. Also check out their Action Calendar for things that are happening in your area that you can get involved in.
Listen to or watch on YT the podcast
Feminist Buzzkills , you’ll LOVE it!!!
They are kickass abortion activists & also funny as shit. They have great guests on & they give you so many ways to get involved.
Does anyone know what treatment for miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy was like pre-Roe in the US? Were physicians able to rely on their professional judgement to provide reproductive health care without political interference?
I had a miscarriage in the 1980’s and the treatment was a D&C (Dilation and Curettage) to avoid the risk of hemorrhaging or complications of any remaining parts left not discharged by my body. That was the terminology my doctor used to explain the procedure to me. He never called it an “abortion”. I think the healthcare industry needs to stop using abortion as the diagnosis code for all these life saving procedures and start coding differently. I fail to understand why this isn’t already happening.
Because we are sick & tired of the word abortion being demonized!! It is a normal procedure. The exact same procedure is used for either an abortion or for a D&C following a miscarriage. I started my career as an RN in the OR when still a student in 1974. The words we used on the pt’s chart as the diagnosis for why the D&C was being done was: Missed AB or
missed abortion, we didn’t write the word miscarriage.
We want the word de-stigmatized, it is not a dirty word
Based on the books that I've been reading over the past few months related to women's healthcare, abortion and miscarriage - before Roe (1973) and after Roe (1973): if a woman was having a miscarriage she went to the emergency room for a D&C. There were not any issues from the doctors or the Christian radicals. The Christian radical Taliban didn't have a problem with abortion up until roughly 1980 anyway. That's another story.
All of this state, Republican sanctioned suffering for C-sections is very new. I suspect there are nurses and doctors on this platform who could chime in further.
We are regressing back to the 11th century. Pretty soon they'll have us in Chastity belts, under the guise that it's for "our protection"
And instead of c-sections they will go back to symphysiotomy, the method of choice for Catholic doctors in Ireland until as late as the 1980s. The chainsaw (a small version) was actually invented to cut open women's pelvises in cases of obstructed labor. It continued in Catholic hospitals well past the time when c-sections became comparatively more safe. Many women were permanently disabled by having their pelvises sawed open, but Catholic doctors reasoned that it protected their future fertility and prevented any medical need for contraception caused by a c-section damaging the womb. I guess now they don't care about those things.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/12/symphysiotomy-irelands-brutal-alternative-to-caesareans
I think we have come farther than that in medical practices. They probably didn't know you don't have to saw the baby out that long ago. But they would killed the mother in the process. There was no surviving a C-section of any kind until I think the early 1900s.
Did u read the article at all? or even the comment? It clearly states this horrific procedure was still being done up into the 1980s !!!! fcs I graduated RN school in 1976 & we did C-sections all the time; they weee already proven to be safe long ago
The Catholic run hospitals in Ireland persisted in symphysiotomy until the 1980s, with the objective of maximizing the number of future births for a woman. So yes, we have come further, but not when religious beliefs control women's healthcare.
Thank you for the article. The violence against women is deplorable.
Goddamn catholics. They have inflicted so much pain on women for the last 2000 years. Including funding and lobbying against our right to vote during suffrage. Absolutely nothing about them has changed even now they still do not support birth control.
Barbarism; no other phrase is adequate.
Yes, at least in CA. I'm a labor and delivery nurse. We see patients who are 20 weeks and above. The patients who 19 6/7 weeks and below are seen in the ER. Our on call laborist is called to the ER to see pregnant patients within this gestational age range and they perform the appropriate procedure usually a dilation and curettage aka abortion.
Is it an abortion if the baby has died or there's been a miscarriage? I didn't think removing an ectopic pregnancy was abortion either? I don't know because it's obvious to anyone who has a brain that ectopic pregnancies have to be removed immediately but doctors are acting like it's an abortion now? This is getting off the charts crazy because it wasn't originally an attack on abortion...
Removal of my ectopic pregnancy in 1994 was considered an abortion by the Catholic hospital that refused to do the life-saving procedure. They still won’t help women with ectopic pregnancies. This has to change.
If there is no longer a fetal heartbeat or there has been a miscarriage where all of the products of conception have not been released by the woman's uterus an abortion is performed, i.e. a dilation and curettage for the miscarriage and also for an early loss of fetal heartbeat. If the pregnancy is further along and it is considered an IUFD (Intrauterine fetal demise) then that pregnancy would be induced with high doses of misoprostol in the hospital to remove the pregnancy from the uterus. This is also technically an abortion because it is an evacuation of the uterus. In this case the fetal body is delivered intact.
For an ectopic pregnancy a medication called Methotrexate is used to stop the growth of the fetal cells in the fallopian tube and then the products of conception will be released through heavy vaginal bleeding. Or a laparoscopic incision is made to remove the mass from the fallopian tube and to repair any damage to the tube. The Evangelical Christians have a problem with this because they think a doctor can remove the mass and put it in the uterus so that it can continue growing into a baby. That is not possible.
Thanks, Danielle. I'm relieved to know that women can still get appropriate care somewhere.
But my question was about reproductive care in the era before Roe of 1973. I fear that we've gone backwards since then and what was once seen as an obvious course of treatment no longer is.
There is an article called "DES' grisly legacy". It talks about the hormones doctors gave women between 1940s and 1960s to prevent miscarriage and the consequences of it in the offspring later in in life. But I don't know when they started doing d&c for miscarriage but if you think of how ignorant we were medically until like late 1800s early 1900s they probably just ordered bed rest
I think the reason for using DES was actually benign; a real attempt at preventing miscarriage and a belief in miracle drugs among the public.
Before the medical establishment elbowed out women care providers like midwives and doulas from childbirth, there was a lot of knowledge carried in traditional apprenticeships from practitioners to novices. Miscarriage and abortion care was most certainly within that spectrum.
Ahh, era before Roe. I misread your comment. I was born in 1973 so I don't have firsthand knowledge of this time. But being born in 1973 has its perks because when I wear my "1973" t-shirt it symbolizes 2 important milestones for me!
Great question. I would like to know as well.
See my answer to Geri Fox above
I don't know whether names and faces would get these stories the attention they deserve, but it seems that Americans can ignore data and statistics. There are a million reasons we don't want anyone to have to go public, but the people behind this torture, maiming, and murder are counting on that.
Seeing a person speak out about their experience like Dr. Dennard, Brittany Watts and Kate Cox does help with advocacy. Not everyone has the ability and is comfortable to speak out like this. I know more will eventually.
They're creating new victims daily. So I hope more can speak out. I just think it has a stronger effect that just statistics and anonymous reports, even though those should be more than horrific enough by themselves. It's harder to brush off a real person than a number, even though every number has a real person behind it.
These people are truly sick, twisted, evil monsters.