off the subject: but can anyone give me information about Reproductive Justice in Atlanta, Ga?
I think I got information about it from Abortion, Every Day; I wrote a check in December, and it hasn't been cashed. And it hasn't been returned. Thanks.
I disagree. In my world there is a medical procedure called D&C which can be used to terminate a pregnancy when there are no complications. That set of circumstances is what is correctly called abortion. The same is true, to a lesser extent, to pharmaceuticals which trigger evacuation of the uterus; they can be used to terminate a healthy pregnancy without surgical intervention but they can also be used to evacuate a uterus when an abnormality is detected.
When either method is used to save a woman's life and health, the term abortion is too politically-charged to be applied but has been used indiscriminately.
Something important to understand while we see threats to eliminate the department of education (so they can privatize schools) and the rise of pseudoscience videos to indoctrinate children, is the origins of the “religious right”. Politico has an in depth article, but there are countless documentaries as well on this history:
The Real Origins of the Religious Right
They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.
The one thing I didn't like about the excellent and moving book about pregnancy loss, "I'm Sorry for My Loss" is using "maternal-fetal separation" for, well, Abortions But Not the Bad People Kind of Abortions. But I do wonder whether the ongoing corruption of language is excusable if it paves the way to some needed care even when all the needed care is inaccessible.
I am still amazed that any OB-GYN would remain in any of these states. I hate to say that health care deserts should be created, but how else can we get the attention of these monsters?
Becoming pregnant is a life changing condition, at every aspect of it, from pre-conception to the end of the pregnancy at whatever stage. Whether you are wondering how you are going to feed one more child now that the jerk has vamoosed, or hoping that this pregnancy won’t end prematurely, or seeing your future altered irrevocably by circumstances outside of your control, women take pregnancy very seriously. Most women, some men. To others it is a ploy, a tool, a weapon. Suddenly, seeing political support evaporating, they have apparently realized they haven’t been defining their words properly, “we don’t mean this, we mean that. Of course, we never intended women should die.“ Bullshit! Bull shit! Women have always died. The United States had one of the highest maternal mortality rates even before Dobbs. Were the anti-abortionists ever trying to fix that? High infant mortality rate. Has that been a heart-felt cause for them? They have been planning to cut food stamps and school lunches and gut the public school system not improve the lives of children. Until the OBGYNs feel free to come back. Until all pregnant women receive free healthcare and nutritional support. Until malnutrition is a thing of the past and children are supported to reach their full potential, nothing has changed about their agenda. They think they have found a wedge to divide the fight for women’s bodily autonomy. What they are doing is exploit the deaths of women. They are saying “you misunderstood, we are not talking about the good women who have unfortunate medical conditions, we are talking about bad women who kill their babies.” Let me repeat: many women have been dying from pregnancy for many years and so have many infants perished; they have done nothing. Why should they be the deciders of who lives and who dies? Why should they be the deciders of the size of your family? Why should they, so comfortable in their ignorance, have any influence on your health? They are playing you. Do not falter. Do not break the line.
What fools these Republicans are: We in medicine have NEVER used the word “miscarriage” at all, in medical language, there are “spontaneous abortions” which the general public calls miscarriages, and “elective abortions” which the general public calls abortions! Hahaha, you’ll never see “miscarriage” written at all in the medical world in which I exist! We write SPAB for spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) and ELAB for elective abortion, an abortion one has chosen to have!
I've been seeing "miscarriage" more and more lately. But these are also the same providers that write "patient has a history of BPD..." when the patient is diagnosed with bipolar disorder without suspicion of borderline personality disorder.
Fucking idiots! I used the exact same instrument set for a Spontaneous abortion D &C, as I would for any other abortive procedure requiring removal of the endometrium. Intent has no bearing on it.
I knew this moment was coming as I witnessed a lot of “pro-life” messaging before the election saying, “Medical definitions don’t matter”. Antiabortion activists aren’t winning over any hearts and minds and you better believe they are pissed! Time to ramp up the ol’ good vs evil women card in the play deck. They want to divide up women by who is deserving of abortion care and who isn’t. I also believe it’s a way to stop the bleeding of activists leaving their own movement.
Jessica, I worship the ground on which you walk, but I am having a hard time understanding your opposition to the South Carolina law. In fact, I think the pro-choice movement should propose such laws in all 50 states. If calling miscarriage care something other than abortion means that a medical provider can prescribe mifepristone and misoprostol or perform a D&C in a timely manner, then I am all for it. If Texas or Georgia had had such a law, women would not have died and Amanda Zurowski would not have had to go septic. I don’t care what they call it. Of course, the insurance codes won’t change, and I suppose there is some purpose served in tracking pregnancy outcomes (maternal mortality, etc), so long as the data is anonymized.
Are you arguing that this law would fly in the face of efforts to normalize/legitimize abortion care? Maybe so, but I think it’s a small price to pay,
It's that it's a trap to play by their rules. Changing the definition bolsters their argument about intent, and consequently fetal personhood, and it's not clear to me you guarantee care for those cases anyway, what with the 'maternal fetal separation' nonsense. That said, if we could turn the trap on its head, and use their own arguments against them, it would be beneficial. The problem is the public already agrees with us, but we haven't been able to make it the decisive issue when they vote, and a Republican party indebted to Christian Nationalists has taken power. In theory we should have better luck with judges, since that process is supposed to be about evidence and logic, but it hasn't worked out that way so far, because many (most?) judges are still political and influenced by beliefs.
Allowing them to create their own medical definitions opens a door that is best left closed for a number of reasons. But changing language to say that treatment of ectopic pregnancies is not abortion and that abortion is about intent will allow the pro-birthers to push the agenda that pro-choice really *is* only about killing innocent, healthy babies. You know it's a falsehood, I know it's false. But that is how they are already trying to spin it and letting them get away with changing the language makes it even easier to do so.
Insurance is also extremely complicated. If the documentation in the medical record doesn't match what is being submitted, they won't reimburse the claim. Do you think the provider is going to eat that cost? It's going to be on the person seeking care to pay for the entire bill–and because most hospitals are government funded, meaning that's where they get their incentives for financial assistance programs, patients likely won't receive financial assistance with their bills either.
It's a slippery slope of setting it up so "good" women can get necessary medical care while "bad" women have to "pay the consequences for their actions".
As a retired Surgical Assistant it is a abomination to call clearly defined medical terminology, that has had the same definition for centuries, something else, because they have an agenda, and those lies are only the beginning, they want to define all contraception as "Abortifacients" which is a very specific defined term as well. They are lying to take away our reproductive rights!
This bill is just more pseudoscience nonsense and a way to pretend like they care. They are worried about their look right now, and it is NOT a good look! Medical terms matter in real life. I’m not a doctor, but I assume if doctors still have to record it as an abortion…it’s an abortion, and they will not be providing that care. Everything antiabortion activists do is layered with deceit, lies, and trickery.
How can this possibly make sense? If the woman's intent transforms abortion into miscarriage care and an abortion is always wrong because it is murder, then what happened to the object that made it murder when it is removed under miscarriage care? That tissue dies under miscarriage care. What was it transformed into and why isn't that always what it was in the first place? Curiouser and curiouser.
So how the fuck are they going to bill insurance for care if they can’t log the correct CPT codes? Is part of this plan financially punishing people who suffer a miscarriage with medical debt??
off the subject: but can anyone give me information about Reproductive Justice in Atlanta, Ga?
I think I got information about it from Abortion, Every Day; I wrote a check in December, and it hasn't been cashed. And it hasn't been returned. Thanks.
I disagree. In my world there is a medical procedure called D&C which can be used to terminate a pregnancy when there are no complications. That set of circumstances is what is correctly called abortion. The same is true, to a lesser extent, to pharmaceuticals which trigger evacuation of the uterus; they can be used to terminate a healthy pregnancy without surgical intervention but they can also be used to evacuate a uterus when an abnormality is detected.
When either method is used to save a woman's life and health, the term abortion is too politically-charged to be applied but has been used indiscriminately.
Something important to understand while we see threats to eliminate the department of education (so they can privatize schools) and the rise of pseudoscience videos to indoctrinate children, is the origins of the “religious right”. Politico has an in depth article, but there are countless documentaries as well on this history:
The Real Origins of the Religious Right
They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/
The one thing I didn't like about the excellent and moving book about pregnancy loss, "I'm Sorry for My Loss" is using "maternal-fetal separation" for, well, Abortions But Not the Bad People Kind of Abortions. But I do wonder whether the ongoing corruption of language is excusable if it paves the way to some needed care even when all the needed care is inaccessible.
I am still amazed that any OB-GYN would remain in any of these states. I hate to say that health care deserts should be created, but how else can we get the attention of these monsters?
Becoming pregnant is a life changing condition, at every aspect of it, from pre-conception to the end of the pregnancy at whatever stage. Whether you are wondering how you are going to feed one more child now that the jerk has vamoosed, or hoping that this pregnancy won’t end prematurely, or seeing your future altered irrevocably by circumstances outside of your control, women take pregnancy very seriously. Most women, some men. To others it is a ploy, a tool, a weapon. Suddenly, seeing political support evaporating, they have apparently realized they haven’t been defining their words properly, “we don’t mean this, we mean that. Of course, we never intended women should die.“ Bullshit! Bull shit! Women have always died. The United States had one of the highest maternal mortality rates even before Dobbs. Were the anti-abortionists ever trying to fix that? High infant mortality rate. Has that been a heart-felt cause for them? They have been planning to cut food stamps and school lunches and gut the public school system not improve the lives of children. Until the OBGYNs feel free to come back. Until all pregnant women receive free healthcare and nutritional support. Until malnutrition is a thing of the past and children are supported to reach their full potential, nothing has changed about their agenda. They think they have found a wedge to divide the fight for women’s bodily autonomy. What they are doing is exploit the deaths of women. They are saying “you misunderstood, we are not talking about the good women who have unfortunate medical conditions, we are talking about bad women who kill their babies.” Let me repeat: many women have been dying from pregnancy for many years and so have many infants perished; they have done nothing. Why should they be the deciders of who lives and who dies? Why should they be the deciders of the size of your family? Why should they, so comfortable in their ignorance, have any influence on your health? They are playing you. Do not falter. Do not break the line.
What fools these Republicans are: We in medicine have NEVER used the word “miscarriage” at all, in medical language, there are “spontaneous abortions” which the general public calls miscarriages, and “elective abortions” which the general public calls abortions! Hahaha, you’ll never see “miscarriage” written at all in the medical world in which I exist! We write SPAB for spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) and ELAB for elective abortion, an abortion one has chosen to have!
I've been seeing "miscarriage" more and more lately. But these are also the same providers that write "patient has a history of BPD..." when the patient is diagnosed with bipolar disorder without suspicion of borderline personality disorder.
Fucking idiots! I used the exact same instrument set for a Spontaneous abortion D &C, as I would for any other abortive procedure requiring removal of the endometrium. Intent has no bearing on it.
I knew this moment was coming as I witnessed a lot of “pro-life” messaging before the election saying, “Medical definitions don’t matter”. Antiabortion activists aren’t winning over any hearts and minds and you better believe they are pissed! Time to ramp up the ol’ good vs evil women card in the play deck. They want to divide up women by who is deserving of abortion care and who isn’t. I also believe it’s a way to stop the bleeding of activists leaving their own movement.
Jessica, I worship the ground on which you walk, but I am having a hard time understanding your opposition to the South Carolina law. In fact, I think the pro-choice movement should propose such laws in all 50 states. If calling miscarriage care something other than abortion means that a medical provider can prescribe mifepristone and misoprostol or perform a D&C in a timely manner, then I am all for it. If Texas or Georgia had had such a law, women would not have died and Amanda Zurowski would not have had to go septic. I don’t care what they call it. Of course, the insurance codes won’t change, and I suppose there is some purpose served in tracking pregnancy outcomes (maternal mortality, etc), so long as the data is anonymized.
Are you arguing that this law would fly in the face of efforts to normalize/legitimize abortion care? Maybe so, but I think it’s a small price to pay,
It's that it's a trap to play by their rules. Changing the definition bolsters their argument about intent, and consequently fetal personhood, and it's not clear to me you guarantee care for those cases anyway, what with the 'maternal fetal separation' nonsense. That said, if we could turn the trap on its head, and use their own arguments against them, it would be beneficial. The problem is the public already agrees with us, but we haven't been able to make it the decisive issue when they vote, and a Republican party indebted to Christian Nationalists has taken power. In theory we should have better luck with judges, since that process is supposed to be about evidence and logic, but it hasn't worked out that way so far, because many (most?) judges are still political and influenced by beliefs.
Allowing them to create their own medical definitions opens a door that is best left closed for a number of reasons. But changing language to say that treatment of ectopic pregnancies is not abortion and that abortion is about intent will allow the pro-birthers to push the agenda that pro-choice really *is* only about killing innocent, healthy babies. You know it's a falsehood, I know it's false. But that is how they are already trying to spin it and letting them get away with changing the language makes it even easier to do so.
Insurance is also extremely complicated. If the documentation in the medical record doesn't match what is being submitted, they won't reimburse the claim. Do you think the provider is going to eat that cost? It's going to be on the person seeking care to pay for the entire bill–and because most hospitals are government funded, meaning that's where they get their incentives for financial assistance programs, patients likely won't receive financial assistance with their bills either.
It's a slippery slope of setting it up so "good" women can get necessary medical care while "bad" women have to "pay the consequences for their actions".
As a retired Surgical Assistant it is a abomination to call clearly defined medical terminology, that has had the same definition for centuries, something else, because they have an agenda, and those lies are only the beginning, they want to define all contraception as "Abortifacients" which is a very specific defined term as well. They are lying to take away our reproductive rights!
This bill is just more pseudoscience nonsense and a way to pretend like they care. They are worried about their look right now, and it is NOT a good look! Medical terms matter in real life. I’m not a doctor, but I assume if doctors still have to record it as an abortion…it’s an abortion, and they will not be providing that care. Everything antiabortion activists do is layered with deceit, lies, and trickery.
How can this possibly make sense? If the woman's intent transforms abortion into miscarriage care and an abortion is always wrong because it is murder, then what happened to the object that made it murder when it is removed under miscarriage care? That tissue dies under miscarriage care. What was it transformed into and why isn't that always what it was in the first place? Curiouser and curiouser.
So how the fuck are they going to bill insurance for care if they can’t log the correct CPT codes? Is part of this plan financially punishing people who suffer a miscarriage with medical debt??
Thanks for highlighting, again, the ridiculousness of our SC state legislators. I hope more people will start paying attention.
We need to vote out every gop, that's the only way this can end.
We aren't the ones voting them in. We do need education of the real type. Not their propagandic bullshit!