Beer boy’s language broadening the concept of conscience protections should alarm more than just pro-choice people. He seems to say that if emergency room doctors believe a patient’s medical condition was caused by engaging in behavior they disapprove of, they can opt out of providing care. This has implications for LBGTQ+ people, smokers, substance abusers, crime suspects, hunters and gun owners and even obese people.
I honestly think that if you're an ER doctor and a woman or girl comes to you bleeding out because she had a (rare) complication from medication abortion, and you refuse to treat her because of your "conscience", then you shouldn't be a doctor. And frankly your conscience, and your morals, SUCK.
So, let me see if I understand beer bong boy. Women are forced to subsume their lives to foreign DNA but doctors can use a conscience clause to stand by and watch her die. No one said a Supreme Court justice can’t be morally bankrupt, I guess. As if we didn’t know that before.
I wonder how many children Kristan Hawkins has, and/or financially supports. I'm also like to know which method of contraception she and her spouse use.
Of course, Hawkins is one of those special Handmaids beloved by thr patriarchy.
I think Dems need to go on the offensive and start weeding out doctors who won’t do their jobs when it comes to giving life-saving care to women. We only have so many slots in medical schools and I don’t think we should be wasting them on people who don’t intend to practice 21st century medicine. It should be a requirement that some basic questions like “Does your religion require you to withhold care to women?” be part of the screening for entrance to medical schools. Not everyone has a right to these jobs. And I think we need to consider a national healthcare system that would require all hospitals to give the same care. We need to stop playing defense and start weeding out these people who are in positions to harm women and children. Freedom of religion shouldn’t mean the freedom to traumatize, maim or kill women. We need to turn this situation around!
If you think the world is flat, or that the sun rotates around the earth, you shouldn't be allowed to become an astronomer. If you think that a human zygote is a human being, you shouldn't be allowed to become a doctor.
Excellent idea. We would need to be careful with how we phrase it. In order to not be accused of religious discrimination, we would have to say that they couldn’t apply for medical disciplines that would require them to care for females. I believe this would be similar to how conscientious objectors were assigned in the military to non-combat positions.
I remember in 2016-2017 the phrase “this is not normal” and “don’t let them normalize this” being repeated over and over. And here we are. Eighty years later.
Slight disagreement. I 'think the reason this kind of harassment is ramping up is because it's become clearer and clearer to' people on that side of the political divide that their behavior does not have consequences, and that they will never be held accountable for any of it. Of everything that the era of Trump has wrought, this is the deadliest. People may have always suspected they could get away with stuff, but the last eight years have proven it. Which has encouraged a lot more of it.
I don't know, there is a recent story of a 75 year old women arrested and convicted for interfering in the operation of a clinic as she and others locked the front doors of the clinic then locked themselves to the doors.
Now the antis will tell you she was arrested for praying at the clinic, but of course they're wrong (there are antis at abortion clinics every day who do nothing but pray)
"Fact Check: Paulette Harlow convicted for blocking abortion clinic, not praying"
I mean. We’ve never in my lifetime had a President that pardons and kisses people charged with human rights abuses (Joe Arpaio), praises insurrectionists, and welcomes Nazis. So.. yeah all the dangerous freaks feel empowered. We had a 4Chan reader in chief which pushed us to the brink of a Constitution crises and has been convicted for multiple crimes and … we’re 50-50 as a country on whether they get another 4+ years. No wonder they feel so free to be their hateful disgusting selves.
Yeah. Idk what to be more disturbed by: the fact that there are that many garbage human beings, or that there are that many people who don't even consider that when deciding how to vote. I mean, yeah they're Nazis, but you know, what about the economy? 🙄
I give them a *huge* pass because I think most people are good and they’re drowning in mis/disinfo and have no idea. It’s 2024 you should be able to walk past any tv, check any news site and see headlines like
“Convicted felon visits Capitol to plot second term with coconspirators”
“Climate denier nominee asks gas and oil companies for bribes”
“Lunatic judges giving criminals automatic weapons to terrorize our country”
“Gop 2024 Nominee flirting with capital punishment for women and doctors”
I don’t want a liberal “Fox News” but dear God I wish some leadership could *imagine* what that would look like. Just imagine going to AP and not seeing nonsense that reads like North Korean propaganda like yesterday where they tweeted Trump had a “triumphant return” and Republicans were “reinvigorated.”
We’re living in the outtakes of “Don’t Look Up” and people are still deeply unaware of how this November will change everything. So I say cut them some slack and demand better from corporate media and our political leaders who keep yammering about bipartisanship when the world is on fire and they’re praising their ability to work with arsonists. It’s not 2004.
Yeah. I mean, it's chicken and egg. The public is not going to demand better if they're not aware. It seems shortsighted of the business community to think fascism is going to be good for them (or for anyone), but it's clear we can't depend on them to do the right thing. So we have to educate the public ourselves. No one else is going to do it for us. I'm just not sure how much is they don't know, and how much is just being complacent and selfish.
Yeah. I was conservative for years. I grew up that way and it took years and years for me to realize how much my vote was influenced by my upbringing and peers versus informed discussions about policy. Sigh.
The ADF is also taking their Christofascist zealotry on the road. Our military is constantly indoctrinated to spread the word of Christ in their posts throughout the world. Watching only the Fox News channel, soldiers and sailors are expected to spread the deceit around the world.
There are hundreds of factions in this country, religious and not, that are determined to end the advancement of women. Chastity belt sales are skyrocketing, both for men and women.
Moses Mike Johnson’s daughter received an a purity ring from daddy, and I’m willing to bet she wears a chastity belt. There will not be any college in her future, but as part of the Joshua Generation, she’ll be an influencer for Christ, one way or another.
This is not a movement that will be easily stopped. Belief systems are stubborn. The only way to mitigate the ongoing devaluation of women’s autonomy is by electing progressive democrats and ending the republican majority.
Rabbinic Judaism does not regard the fetus as a full human being. The Mishnah declares that one who kills a one-day-old baby is criminally liable and deserves a penalty the same as that of the death of the mother. Until it has been established that the pregnancy has been completed and life is formed, the fetus is not included as a life deserving of another life."
"Precedence of the mother's life
The fetus however, though considered "alive" to the extent that its life is protected, is not considered fully alive to the extent that if it endangered the mother's life it takes precedence. Thus if a pregnancy risks the life of the mother, the Rabbis rule that the mother's life takes precedence and that the child may be aborted so as to save the mother's life ..."
While there may not be biblical references, the religious right finds their ‘factual’ references somewhere. They proclaim God made us, and he chooses if and when we will be pregnant. It is very much a Christofascist form of zealotry.
But that whole "life begins at conception" is shit they made up in my lifetime. When I was a kid, only the Catholics were opposed to abortion. And that was because the pope made a deal with Napoleon.
"But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism."
I recommend that Randall Balmer article all the time; it’s what opened my eyes. And I used the Robin Morgan citation in an article I wrote to refute the contentions of a British doctor who wrote a piece saying that Christianity ‘largely’ has been against abortion historically and who opposes ‘abortion colonialism,’ although I couldn’t find other sources to verify it.
Yes, it is absolute propaganda, I am 60 and they started this absolute horseshit in my lifetime! Then lie to our faces and say it is "historical!" No, it is not. Whitewashing history is what they do, though. The Catholics are another story, but even they, made a deal for power, and more converts, I guarantee they have locked the historical records away in the Vatican library.
I get it, believe me. I’m in Texas and I spend hours every week taking on these “Christians”—I’m not talking about the people who are led astray by bad theology so much as the ones who lead them. I don’t care if they’re Christian or not. It’s a free country with a free expression clause in our constitution. I refuse to let them get away with making stuff up and calling it Christian.
I like what Andra Watkins always says: none of what they practice can be reconciled with the teachings of Jesus, but then they don't worship Jesus; they worship vengeful wrathful Old Testament God. (And yes, even there I'm sure they have it wrong, but it makes a point.)
The Southern Poverty Law Center published "Anti-Abortion Extremism: Inside the Movement Dismantling Our Reproductive Rights," by Cassie Miller and Rachel Fugardi, https://www.splcenter.org/anti-abortion-movement. It has six chapters: "Movement's Extremist Playbook," "A Violent History," "Movement's Landscape Today," "Increasingly, Clinics Are Targets," "Cost of Abortion Bans," and "Movement's Broader Agenda."
ifwhenhow has a new report (available in English and Spanish): Kebe, Kylie Sunderlin, and Elizabeth Ling, "State Violence and the Far-Reaching Impact of Dobbs," (June 13, 2024), https://ifwhenhow.org/resources/reprolegalhelplinereport2024/. It says that since Dobbs, the top five reasons for contacting ifwhenhow's helpline, which has received 5,300 calls, are provisions and risks of medication abortion (1644 calls), judicial bypass [for minors who do not have parental permission] 1,593 calls, general abortion rights (869 calls), legal status/risks of self-managed abortion (567 calls) and general questions about youth access (314 calls). The help line got the most calls from states where there have always been major limitations on abortion, where the rules have changed frequently in the post-Dobbs era, or where reproductive care options are limited. Looking at you, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, and Arizona. Most callers were younger than 25; about a third were underr 18.
"That’s something Democrats should start taking to heart, instead of running from the issue." Any Democrat can win in any district, even the ruby red ones, if the Democrat hammers on Dobbs all day every day. Prevaricate or try to appease and lose.
The signature gatherers in Montana might want to consider armed bodyguards. Screw the putos harassing them.
Beer boy’s language broadening the concept of conscience protections should alarm more than just pro-choice people. He seems to say that if emergency room doctors believe a patient’s medical condition was caused by engaging in behavior they disapprove of, they can opt out of providing care. This has implications for LBGTQ+ people, smokers, substance abusers, crime suspects, hunters and gun owners and even obese people.
🎯He's doing what his masters tell him to do.
I wonder if Kavanaugh laughed when he wrote that.
I honestly think that if you're an ER doctor and a woman or girl comes to you bleeding out because she had a (rare) complication from medication abortion, and you refuse to treat her because of your "conscience", then you shouldn't be a doctor. And frankly your conscience, and your morals, SUCK.
So, let me see if I understand beer bong boy. Women are forced to subsume their lives to foreign DNA but doctors can use a conscience clause to stand by and watch her die. No one said a Supreme Court justice can’t be morally bankrupt, I guess. As if we didn’t know that before.
“If you don’t think abortion is about the economy, you probably don’t have a uterus.” - Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer
I've always gone with whatever Gretchen says, so, I guess I must have a uterus 🤔. Happy 🇺🇲 day.
😊
I wonder how many children Kristan Hawkins has, and/or financially supports. I'm also like to know which method of contraception she and her spouse use.
Of course, Hawkins is one of those special Handmaids beloved by thr patriarchy.
She is fucking WaPo's darling, they quote her on every article on abortion. The stupid, clueless, git.
I think Dems need to go on the offensive and start weeding out doctors who won’t do their jobs when it comes to giving life-saving care to women. We only have so many slots in medical schools and I don’t think we should be wasting them on people who don’t intend to practice 21st century medicine. It should be a requirement that some basic questions like “Does your religion require you to withhold care to women?” be part of the screening for entrance to medical schools. Not everyone has a right to these jobs. And I think we need to consider a national healthcare system that would require all hospitals to give the same care. We need to stop playing defense and start weeding out these people who are in positions to harm women and children. Freedom of religion shouldn’t mean the freedom to traumatize, maim or kill women. We need to turn this situation around!
Sadly like Kavanaugh, they will just lie.
Yeah, there would have to be real consequences for lying.
And all their other harmful behavior.
If you think the world is flat, or that the sun rotates around the earth, you shouldn't be allowed to become an astronomer. If you think that a human zygote is a human being, you shouldn't be allowed to become a doctor.
Excellent idea. We would need to be careful with how we phrase it. In order to not be accused of religious discrimination, we would have to say that they couldn’t apply for medical disciplines that would require them to care for females. I believe this would be similar to how conscientious objectors were assigned in the military to non-combat positions.
That’s a good refinement.
We need national health care and we need all hospitals to be owned and run as secular institutions that serve EVERYONE.
This this this and..THIS^^^
Extremely well said. Thank you, Lesley.
I remember in 2016-2017 the phrase “this is not normal” and “don’t let them normalize this” being repeated over and over. And here we are. Eighty years later.
Satan's greatest victory is convincing people he didn't exist. The Roberts' Court is exposing that misconception.
Slight disagreement. I 'think the reason this kind of harassment is ramping up is because it's become clearer and clearer to' people on that side of the political divide that their behavior does not have consequences, and that they will never be held accountable for any of it. Of everything that the era of Trump has wrought, this is the deadliest. People may have always suspected they could get away with stuff, but the last eight years have proven it. Which has encouraged a lot more of it.
Bingo!
I don't know, there is a recent story of a 75 year old women arrested and convicted for interfering in the operation of a clinic as she and others locked the front doors of the clinic then locked themselves to the doors.
Now the antis will tell you she was arrested for praying at the clinic, but of course they're wrong (there are antis at abortion clinics every day who do nothing but pray)
"Fact Check: Paulette Harlow convicted for blocking abortion clinic, not praying"
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/paulette-harlow-convicted-blocking-abortion-clinic-not-praying-2024-06-11/
I mean. We’ve never in my lifetime had a President that pardons and kisses people charged with human rights abuses (Joe Arpaio), praises insurrectionists, and welcomes Nazis. So.. yeah all the dangerous freaks feel empowered. We had a 4Chan reader in chief which pushed us to the brink of a Constitution crises and has been convicted for multiple crimes and … we’re 50-50 as a country on whether they get another 4+ years. No wonder they feel so free to be their hateful disgusting selves.
Yeah. Idk what to be more disturbed by: the fact that there are that many garbage human beings, or that there are that many people who don't even consider that when deciding how to vote. I mean, yeah they're Nazis, but you know, what about the economy? 🙄
I give them a *huge* pass because I think most people are good and they’re drowning in mis/disinfo and have no idea. It’s 2024 you should be able to walk past any tv, check any news site and see headlines like
“Convicted felon visits Capitol to plot second term with coconspirators”
“Climate denier nominee asks gas and oil companies for bribes”
“Lunatic judges giving criminals automatic weapons to terrorize our country”
“Gop 2024 Nominee flirting with capital punishment for women and doctors”
I don’t want a liberal “Fox News” but dear God I wish some leadership could *imagine* what that would look like. Just imagine going to AP and not seeing nonsense that reads like North Korean propaganda like yesterday where they tweeted Trump had a “triumphant return” and Republicans were “reinvigorated.”
We’re living in the outtakes of “Don’t Look Up” and people are still deeply unaware of how this November will change everything. So I say cut them some slack and demand better from corporate media and our political leaders who keep yammering about bipartisanship when the world is on fire and they’re praising their ability to work with arsonists. It’s not 2004.
Yeah. I mean, it's chicken and egg. The public is not going to demand better if they're not aware. It seems shortsighted of the business community to think fascism is going to be good for them (or for anyone), but it's clear we can't depend on them to do the right thing. So we have to educate the public ourselves. No one else is going to do it for us. I'm just not sure how much is they don't know, and how much is just being complacent and selfish.
Yeah. I was conservative for years. I grew up that way and it took years and years for me to realize how much my vote was influenced by my upbringing and peers versus informed discussions about policy. Sigh.
The ADF is also taking their Christofascist zealotry on the road. Our military is constantly indoctrinated to spread the word of Christ in their posts throughout the world. Watching only the Fox News channel, soldiers and sailors are expected to spread the deceit around the world.
There are hundreds of factions in this country, religious and not, that are determined to end the advancement of women. Chastity belt sales are skyrocketing, both for men and women.
Moses Mike Johnson’s daughter received an a purity ring from daddy, and I’m willing to bet she wears a chastity belt. There will not be any college in her future, but as part of the Joshua Generation, she’ll be an influencer for Christ, one way or another.
This is not a movement that will be easily stopped. Belief systems are stubborn. The only way to mitigate the ongoing devaluation of women’s autonomy is by electing progressive democrats and ending the republican majority.
🤢🤮That purity stuff reeks of grooming and incestual tendencies.
Judaism has no opposition to abortion,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_abortion
"Fetus as less than fully human
Rabbinic Judaism does not regard the fetus as a full human being. The Mishnah declares that one who kills a one-day-old baby is criminally liable and deserves a penalty the same as that of the death of the mother. Until it has been established that the pregnancy has been completed and life is formed, the fetus is not included as a life deserving of another life."
"Precedence of the mother's life
The fetus however, though considered "alive" to the extent that its life is protected, is not considered fully alive to the extent that if it endangered the mother's life it takes precedence. Thus if a pregnancy risks the life of the mother, the Rabbis rule that the mother's life takes precedence and that the child may be aborted so as to save the mother's life ..."
Not Christo. Just fascist. No Biblical basis to oppose abortion, including the NT.
Well, there is a recpe for an abortifacient in the OT, for suspected adulterous wife.
Numbers 5:11+
Thank you! 😁
While there may not be biblical references, the religious right finds their ‘factual’ references somewhere. They proclaim God made us, and he chooses if and when we will be pregnant. It is very much a Christofascist form of zealotry.
But that whole "life begins at conception" is shit they made up in my lifetime. When I was a kid, only the Catholics were opposed to abortion. And that was because the pope made a deal with Napoleon.
"But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism."
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/
https://www.robinmorgan.net/when-the-vatican-thought-abortion-was-moral/
I recommend that Randall Balmer article all the time; it’s what opened my eyes. And I used the Robin Morgan citation in an article I wrote to refute the contentions of a British doctor who wrote a piece saying that Christianity ‘largely’ has been against abortion historically and who opposes ‘abortion colonialism,’ although I couldn’t find other sources to verify it.
Yes, it is absolute propaganda, I am 60 and they started this absolute horseshit in my lifetime! Then lie to our faces and say it is "historical!" No, it is not. Whitewashing history is what they do, though. The Catholics are another story, but even they, made a deal for power, and more converts, I guarantee they have locked the historical records away in the Vatican library.
I get it, believe me. I’m in Texas and I spend hours every week taking on these “Christians”—I’m not talking about the people who are led astray by bad theology so much as the ones who lead them. I don’t care if they’re Christian or not. It’s a free country with a free expression clause in our constitution. I refuse to let them get away with making stuff up and calling it Christian.
I like what Andra Watkins always says: none of what they practice can be reconciled with the teachings of Jesus, but then they don't worship Jesus; they worship vengeful wrathful Old Testament God. (And yes, even there I'm sure they have it wrong, but it makes a point.)
The Southern Poverty Law Center published "Anti-Abortion Extremism: Inside the Movement Dismantling Our Reproductive Rights," by Cassie Miller and Rachel Fugardi, https://www.splcenter.org/anti-abortion-movement. It has six chapters: "Movement's Extremist Playbook," "A Violent History," "Movement's Landscape Today," "Increasingly, Clinics Are Targets," "Cost of Abortion Bans," and "Movement's Broader Agenda."
ifwhenhow has a new report (available in English and Spanish): Kebe, Kylie Sunderlin, and Elizabeth Ling, "State Violence and the Far-Reaching Impact of Dobbs," (June 13, 2024), https://ifwhenhow.org/resources/reprolegalhelplinereport2024/. It says that since Dobbs, the top five reasons for contacting ifwhenhow's helpline, which has received 5,300 calls, are provisions and risks of medication abortion (1644 calls), judicial bypass [for minors who do not have parental permission] 1,593 calls, general abortion rights (869 calls), legal status/risks of self-managed abortion (567 calls) and general questions about youth access (314 calls). The help line got the most calls from states where there have always been major limitations on abortion, where the rules have changed frequently in the post-Dobbs era, or where reproductive care options are limited. Looking at you, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, and Arizona. Most callers were younger than 25; about a third were underr 18.
"That’s something Democrats should start taking to heart, instead of running from the issue." Any Democrat can win in any district, even the ruby red ones, if the Democrat hammers on Dobbs all day every day. Prevaricate or try to appease and lose.