75 Comments

Your comment makes sense and it’s well presented although I take issue with some of it. Way too many people voted for Trump and for Republicans, although I’m not one of them. We’ve been waiting for young voters to turn out and vote in larger numbers but it’s not happening. Many of us hate Trump and many of us are still marching and sending money to liberal candidates. I’m tired of the generational sniping and it doesn’t serve either of us.

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Yes, agreed. My original point was wondering whether the younger generations may have learned to have lower expectations and were therefore more resigned to losing their rights than boomers would be. It was just me thinking out loud; I don't have the answers either.

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The sign I carry at protests says, “They won’t stop at Roe.”

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Where is the outrage? I know where it is. What I can't figure out is how to get the outrage OUT, and in a way that can make a difference. A lot here in these comments about Florida and some about Texas... I am in Texas. I would like to ask that people refrain from generalizing about millions of people based on their home state's reputation and/or leadership. First off - in a lot of the elections where Rs win, it's no landslide. There are millions and millions of people voting blue, and even progressive in Texas (and probably Florida too; I speak of TX bc I have lived here for 52 years). Lots of people CANNOT leave even if they want to. And the more people that flee these so-called "red" states (no such thing as either red or blue; they're all purple) the more the already vulnerable in the "red" states suffer. You may say "But y'all elected those a-holes." Did we? I guess technically "we" did. I admit that there are a multitude of rednecks who vote for jerks. But we STILL don't deserve this abuse. No one does. Even if we elected scum. And again... did we? Really?? I hate to say it, but I'm going to anyway. There's something that we don't really talk about but I think we should. I realize it can make people sound like they are losing their minds when they bring it up, and that's exactly what the Rs want. But... think about Jan 6, and all the weeks preceding it. Ken Paxton, our AG (indicted seven years ago for fraud but yet to face trial), was helping with the insurrection. Ted Cruz and many others stood up and objected when they KNEW damn well that Biden had won. They tried to cheat, which is to say they DID cheat; just because it didn't work does not mean they didn't actually cheat. Now consider the fact that we know everyone loathes trump. And if he was no longer king of their party, they could each run for president. Ted, Josh Hawley, et al - none of them are in politics to be anything but a RULER. They aren't happy being senators. They want to be president. And they want the presidency to mean "king." But still, they cheated, in plain sight, to help *that* guy. Does it make sense that they'd all just cheat then for the first time? Does it make sense that they'd cheat for that guy but not themselves? Is it far fetched to think that by screaming "voter fraud" they've used the old Nazi/KGB tactic of accusing people of what they are guilty of? They have us all yelling "IT WAS A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION" to paint us into a corner. But there's a difference between "voter fraud" and "election fraud." Voter fraud - 3 dogs in a trench coat pretending to be your dead grandma - is RARE. We are correct when we say that. What about election fraud? Is it possible that in all the audits, etc. we missed something? Republicans do not care about democracy or fairness or honesty. They care about POWER. They are ruthless and amoral. Even if my theory is wrong, there is gerrymandering and extreme voter suppression. So yeah... they're not winning by playing fair. They're not winning in a small d democratic fashion.

Lots of us did NOT vote for them, though. Furthermore, a lot of people who consider themselves conservative, and even a lot of those who aren't comfortable with abortions being "easily" accessible (like they may be ok with a 12-week ban or 15 rather than 20-24) - those people DO NOT WANT THESE ARCHAIC, BARBARIC laws. But they have a naïve trust in the system. They think that if things were really bad, someone would be doing something. And so they push it to the back of their minds.

We, on the liberal side, can't push it to the back of our minds but we still have to go to work, raise families, etc. We talk to each other but the conservatives won't listen to anything we say.

So that's where the outrage is... it's buried. Defeated, though hopefully temporarily. The "moderate" (whatever that means) and conservatives think that this stuff with pregnant people suffering will get sorted out. They believe the lies about "executing babies" and think that exceptions work, and they don't even believe it when you tell them about states without ANY exceptions. They do have outrage at the patriarchy but they don't know it. They just pray for forgiveness for their dark thoughts that they have about their husband's untimely demise. And for us libs... well, we are open about the rage that we feel but no one can figure out how to turn it into effective action.

Protest? Well, it isn't physically safe to protest by marching. But of course, it's pretty much dangerous everywhere because guns guns guns and hillbillies yelling about "MAH RAHTS! MURICA! COMENTAKEIT!" And it is not very effective here, as is evidenced by the fact these laws have passed at all.

But here's the real core of the problem - a two -headed monster made of sadism and money.

First the sadism: How to win here? The Rs love it when we are compliant and when they get their way. They love to lie and their malicious disinfo is so pervasive it will never completely wash out. But even when we do NOT comply, they enjoy it. It's not that Rs don't care when we protest. It's that they LOVE it. They laugh. They relish the fact that nobody likes their policies. They are abusive and they get off on seeing thousands of women all worked up and yet ultimately helpless. They actually LOVE that they only have the true support of about 10% of the population. That's part of the fun for them. So it's ineffective to show outrage. It just makes it harder on us individually. The conservative wives suffer at home, and the rest of us suffer too - for example, most of us work with at least one patriarchal bully who knows how to bully without ever saying or doing anything quiiiiite explicit enough to get them in trouble. Insinuation kings. Once they know you're the resident militant feminist, look out.

They. love. to. watch. you. fight. My ex-husband used to do a thing where he'd poke me in the side like kind of rough tickle. I'd try to swat at him, like shooing him away. He'd then grab my head and step back, literally keeping me at arm's length, and he'd laugh and say "swing at me." He knew he could hold me there with one hand and I could have swung all day... even if I did manage to make contact, it wouldn't have hurt him in the least. And of course I didn't "swing." And he would get annoyed that I didn't!

Lastly, the money. Texas has 3 religious zealot billionaires who are funding at least a third of the politicians in our legislature. Their goal is literally to take over society. One of them gave Ted Cruz $15 million, I think. CNN did a special on them; it's relatively easy to find information on them if anyone is still reading and interested. Where are the rich liberals?! Why can't we get some cash pumped into informing people in the "red" states?

So where is the outrage? It's inside us. Screaming in fury all the time. It's in our exhaustion. In our fear. In our chewed fingernails and furrowed brows. In our nightmares. In our tears. Because the fact is that these men DO have the power, legally. I'm saying men not to exclude female Rs from responsibility; it's just that even the women helping them will eventually have their faces eaten, as Judi commented. The most conservative among them are brainwashed and believe this is all God's will or something.

In addition to the true believers, Texas in particular has a religious faction which is not a religion at all but a political movement seeking to destroy the rights of everyone but rich white men. And the most powerful Democrats in the US Congress are doing basically NOTHING to counter it. NOTHING. So if you think it's red states, it's not. It's oppression from the right and weakness from the elected left.

We're still Americans here in these states. We pay federal taxes. We have to obey federal law. Yet we have been forsaken by the federal govt. We had Congress and the WH, but Schumer refused to do what Mitch would do; instead, he prioritized the filibuster over us. When Roe fell, the Senate Dems' response was not to act, but to tell us to vote for them in the fall so THEN they'd help us. That was nonsense, because if you're going to maybe lose, you should act NOW, and if you're going to win, why wait? But he did wait, and they won, but oh darn the luck - not by enough. So basically we don't have rights unless we what... vote harder? And with the filibuster and electoral college and all the systemic NONSENSE, how the hell are we ever supposed to be heard?!

And now here we are approaching a first anniversary of the corrupt SCOTUS's witch burner decision, and we're 50 years in the past. With their hands on our heads and our daughter's heads. We should swing. We want to swing. But we need a way for that swing to make contact.

The outrage is here. At arm's length.

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I agree and I'm screaming with you. I agree about the scapegoating of people in "red" states or in the case of Florida, just existing seems to invite them to kick down. I did mention Texas as a contrast but not to denigrate Texas; only to show how people may be angry about conditions there but they at least had hope and sent money for the fight. When it comes to Florida, they shrug their shoulders and say, "What can you expect from Floriduh?" As though writing off 22 million people was nothing.

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The Democratic party is in such bad shape in Florida and needs to be built from the ground up there. I agree they should get to work. Texas is a much younger population and that's probably why it gets more attention.

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Very possible. Also, Mexicans tend to be more Democratic than South Americans and Cubans (the Latins most found in Florida). You do realize, I hope, that by constantly lampooning Florida, the media has made our job infinitely harder. It absolutely KILLS hope. You would think they would have learned from Obama's message and success. Obama went into the the northern Florida "red" counties. He reached out. Biden and Clinton didn't follow that strategy and that opportunity was missed. AOC knows how it's done. I think it is beyond foolish to turn one's back on 29 electoral points.

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Oh, yes, Florida has an image problem in the rest of the country. As for Obama, there's been quite a bit of shift in how different segments of the electorate are voting starting in 2016. Whether that's because of the Republicans or the Democrats would be harder to say; it's probably both. My point is just that we're not getting the 2008 and 2012 results anymore; both parties have made gains and losses with various groups since then. But no Florida is too big and diverse (30 EV now) to just ignore either.

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What is really interesting about that "image" problem is that people are flooding into Florida regardless (although that may be slowing). The main reason that so much negative news is spread about Florida is that the state has one of the strongest Sunshine Laws in the country which means that it is super easy for journalists to get information on arrests and the like. I have seen many news articles that claim Florida is the worst in say gun laws, but it isn't. I have heard them say that abortion was banned when it wasn't. I have heard them say that we have the highest drug use. We don't. It isn't just an image problem. It's outright lies. And when you lie about people, they resent it and turn against your news outlet. Media is partly responsible. Look at what they did to Hillary. Disgraceful.

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Yes, Florida and Texas are both growing quickly; I think it's more retirees in FL ? but I don't have numbers at hand to back that up, my sense might be exaggerated. I agree that the image problem feeds a vicious cycle of resentment, and resentment is what Republicans are very very good at.

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I hope your ex is far far away from you.

I don't think there's election fraud, yet. Fortunately there are a lot of math and election nerds (I mean that as a good thing) who are liberal Democrats and I'm pretty sure someone would catch on to something. Also, Schumer didn't have the votes and there was no way to get them; that was the tragedy. Manchin and Sinema (and there is no excuse for the latter). Other than that, I agree.

Texas has one advantage that many other red states don't have: economic strength. Business needs to get upset with the state government, especially big business. The rest of us need to be pushing hard for that. Educated and skilled employees need to leave. When the effects start to be measured in dollars, people who are staying on the sidelines might start to get involved. That's your best shot at beating this.

And people who (think they) are safe in blue states need to be more angry about what's being done to their fellow Americans in red states. It's the 1850s all over again and you're in the slave states.

History from other countries might offer some lessons about how to effectively rebel against this kind of oppression; someone else would know better than I. I hope you can stay safe.

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Dear conservative white women,

Have you even noticed that the leopards are licking your earlobes? Have you even seen how close their sharp fangs are to your face? Have you not smelled their hot, carnivore breath?

WAKE UP! Your face WILL be eaten! Banning abortion was only step one. Wait until they come for contraception. Wait until they refuse any sort of public assistance to women unless they are "properly" married to a MAN. Have you looked into the Texas GOP platform? They want "covenant marriage" to make it harder for women to get out of unhappy marriages. Oh yes, don't forget "household voting"! Yes, you are all for punishing those "woke" school-teachers and their LGBTQ storybooks. Wait until the GOP simply scraps publicly-funded PreK, K, and, oh heck, let's just get rid of grades 1-3. The wimmin folk can "stay home and school them kids. Shouldn't be takin' jobs away from the menfolk innyway."

There is a pattern; there is a plan. Conservative white women just don't see it happening to THEM.

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I wonder though. The vast majority of conservative white women are married. They seem to have given up any independence and are more interested in the fates of their husbands and sons (and that their daughters can find men to take care of them). Maybe that's too harsh. But what if these horrors don't actually sound that bad to them? Idk. It's very hard to wrap my head around any woman voting Republican; something has to be very off.

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It’s a trade they make. Security and money and status enjoyed vicariously in exchange for giving up their own independent identities. They do not see it as bad, but their self worth is negligible. Previous generations had no choice. But current generations find it acceptable, in my professional experience, for much better/showier financial lifestyles than previous generations would have expected. The doctor’s wife or the wife of a CEO are good examples of this.

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And in exchange, they must align with patriarchy and denounce feminism.

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Spot on Judi!

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My heart goes to any woman who lives in the increasingly dystopian DeSantistan.

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Mar 24, 2023·edited Mar 24, 2023

Part of the problem with Florida is that about 67% of the residents aren't from Florida and don't identify as Floridian. This causes a problem with solidarity and a lack of concern for the state, particularly with retirees. I was born in Miami and spent a great portion of my life in Florida and all of my time there I heard nothing but negativity about how stupid and horrible Floridians are. Hardly a day goes by that some news outlet or "comedian" isn't bashing Florida or calling someone a "Florida Man". Add to that the fact that the Democratic Party in Florida is very weak and not terribly organized. And even though Obama won the state twice, the media was much more interested in turning Texas Blue... TEXAS of all places. All you have to do is notice that the media keeps referring to Trump as a Floridian when he was born, raised and made his money in New York. Slate had a very good piece about why DeSantis couldn't ban abortion outright. You can read it here: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/florida-15-week-abortion-ban-state-constitution-privacy-rights.html But by imposing a 6 week restriction, DeSantis seeks to impose a ban without doing it outright. I suspect that if his ban passes there will be challenges as to it's state constitutionality. But we'll see.

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That's exactly the problem. It's how Florida has turned hard right in defiance of trends everywhere else. That and the Hispanic vote in Miami-Dade is abandoning Democrats.

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Just for context regarding "hard right" Florida... Here's a map that might interest you: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-republican-states

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Mar 25, 2023·edited Mar 25, 2023

Everywhere else? Really? Florida is the only one, and defiant, at that? Are you sure? And so we write off the 22 million people. Maybe the Democrats really are weak and Florida is the canary in the coal mine because Florida is home to people from ALL over the country and to my mind, reflects the US as a whole. When I was a teacher, I was fully aware that you never got a student who was acting out to behave by saying they were stupid and useless and better off being expelled from the class. You could get rid of them that way, but they were never helped to change. If Florida stays "red", it will be because others made it seem hopeless for them. Don't kick down. They want us divided. (BTW, pay attention to headlines. If the word Florida appears in the headline, it's a negative story. If it's a positive story about Florida, they will bury that in the text. Check out CNN's coverage of Dr. Tamia Potter, for example.)

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I don't write off all of Florida, but it's hard not to write off that massive MAGA retiree population. And yeah there may be some truth to the canary in the coal mine which is quite scary. As for how red it is, most of the metrics are out of date. 2018 was a very strong Dem year, but Republicans held on in Florida (and knocked off Bill Nelson). In 2020 Biden did worse than Clinton in Florida, as Texas moved the other way. Nationally, 2022 was mostly somewhere between 2018 and 2020, maybe redder if you look at the House but most of those problems were in Biden districts in NY and California. But DeSantis and Rubio were romping by double digits against opponents who should have been credible, both winning by more than Greg Abbott did. If all you told me about 2022 was the FL results, I would've thought the election was a Republican rout, 2010 or 2014 or worse. And if I knew everything about 2022 but FL, I would've guessed those contests would've been competitive; single digit wins for the Republicans, if it were still the reddish purple state of the last decade. So that's why I say a hard right turn and likely redder than Texas now, especially with the demographics driving growth in each state. Democrats are more eager about Texas not because it's 'turning blue' but because Florida has been so awful for them.

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The map I posted is from 2022-2023. Texas never went for Obama. The media buried Sen. Nelson when he was running against Voldo...um, Scott. Nelson was an excellent senator. He works with NASA now.

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Yes, it's Cook PVI, which is probably not the best, or at least most thorough, system, and also the text is referring to 2016 as the most recent presidential election so it might be 2012-2016 PVI and not 2016-2020. Obama did win Florida twice, and never Texas. But it's all been downhill from there. Meanwhile Texas is creeping better, from a very red starting point. It's just a question of whether FL has moved to the right of it yet, and we'll be able to say more about that after the next election (assuming we have one and it's at least as free and fair as past elections).

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So, without any more recent data, Florida is judged to be unwinnable. Seems pretty defeatist to me. Seems like they are quick to condemn. I have no patience with defeatists. A matter of "what have you done for me lately".

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One thing I'm now beginning to wonder is how much generational age is a factor. Women and girls of reproductive age are primarily millennials and gen-Zers, and those are generations who have more or less spent their whole lives being shit on by the baby boomers, (and also are less white). How much are low expectations and learned helplessness among those who are most directly impacted a problem? I suppose those are the preconditions for tyranny?

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This baby boomer is most interested in knowing how the boomers – and the word is shat - on you. I believe we’re the ones who got you the reproductive rights you’ve enjoyed up till now.

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Well, first, I'm gen X so I'm not speaking for myself, but what I observe of younger people. It's mostly economic. When baby boomers were young, the country made huge public investments in education. You also still had high paying, and secure, jobs, many unionized, that didn't require a lot of skills. People in their 20s were buying houses, getting married, having kids. Asset markets - housing and stocks, soared in your prime working years. Taxes were cut, a lot. Now that you're retiring, the country is spending massive amounts on social security and medicare. Everything in this country has been geared to your generation. Mostly because of your huge numbers, of course. And a lot of is absolutely also due to the productivity of your generation; I don't mean to discount that.

The young people have huge student loans, but they have to go to college because you need a degree for jobs you never needed a degree for. Non-college jobs have low pay and low security. Even in good jobs you're on your own - no pension, less benefits, and there's no sense that a business owes its workers anything. Houses are incredibly expensive, especially in good job markets and desirable places to live. (Because we restrict building to protect the 'character' of the neighborhoods, often built for the boomers.) People live with their parents into their 30s. Marriage and children are delayed if they happen at all. Stock markets have had wild swings and the worst recession since the depression occurred in 2008. Wages have been stagnant until recently. And young people don't expect those social programs (ss and medicare) to be able to be there for them in anything like their current form (and they may not be able to accumulate much in retirement savings in 401ks and the like, mostly funded from their own wages). Also the planet is burning up.

Are the younger generations really that less deserving? I've talked about this with my own father; baby boomers seldom realize their privilege or entitlement. Young people are not happy. It's why so many support politicians like Bernie Sanders. And who is voting for Trump and these Republicans? They have their highest share of support among boomers.

You may (probably will) quibble with some of this. But that's what I meant by my comment. I hope it makes sense.

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Why do you say that millennials and Gen Z’ers “have spent their lives being shit on by baby bombers”? In what ways?

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I have made a long reply to the other poster above to answer that question; you've both alerted me of the need to explain :)

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It’s all about perspective. It pays to listen to one another and understand one another rather than assume we each have it worse. And that applies to all of us.

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Yes, absolutely! To the original point of the post, I was wondering whether the perspective of the younger generations, who they and their partners are of reproductive age, is sufficiently different from that of the baby boomers, who helped fight and win change in the '60s and '70s, in terms of what they think they can expect from this country. I think we've always done a good job taking care of the baby boom generation - and that's a good thing! - but I think later generations feel like the social contract has gone away. So I wondered whether they are more resigned to losing their rights than say the baby boomers would be. And I don't know the answer to that; it's just me thinking out loud :)

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I’m not a baby boomer, a few years after them, but I paid back over $100,000 in student loans and didn’t buy a new car until I did it. No free ride. A colleague supervisor who was older than the boomers had 100% free college. My millenial and gen X friends’ parents continue to pay for their own student loans while paying all of their kids’ college loans. And taking care of their grandkids while the kid parents go to tropical islands because they need a vacation from real life.

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hi, tried to donate to FL but site was locked into paypal. nope.

sticking with whole women's health. : )

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They are swiftly moving towards removing ALL of women’s rights. Recall when just 100 years ago women were deemed not eligible to vote because they were deemed “not human beings.” Let that sink in, ladies.

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Check Women's March for protests. Protesting may not change it but not protesting won't and let's them think we won't do anything to fight back. I hear you though, that's part of it too, have any other states with these laws ended up not passing them because of civic action?? I don't think people in other states realize either how far it is to go the to capital. It is 4 hours from Tampa and Orlando and 8 hours from Miami. Those are the major cities.

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Where is the uprising, indeed.

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As a Floridian woman who has lived here my entire life, I can understand the question Senator Book as asking where the outrage is. I and many of us did not vote for this legislature or Governor. I spoke out on social media to tell people why not to vote for the Governor and I regularly update on what's going on with these insane laws, it is almost impossible to keep up- I am dismayed at the lack of response and the lack of others doing the same. I also understand that it is getting harder and harder to survive here and when survival is top of mind, advocacy seems like a luxury. Especially when there's a republican supermajority and courts that do exactly what the governor wants no matter the citizen's views or what the law says. Senator Book is in office trying to fight this and feels helpless, how do you think ordinary citizens feel? Florida doesn't have worker protections like California, wages are low and cost of living is increasingly high. People can't afford to risk their jobs. People who go to speak at hearings aren't allowed to speak or are cut off after 1 minute. There are laws against protesting. This is not said to be an excuse. I contact my representatives and congressional Committees, I encourage others to do so as well even if it feels like it will fall on deaf ears because if we say nothing at all then nothing will change. But too many people here either still aren't paying attention or didn't believe us when we tried to warn them and now the systems are even more stacked against us. Make sure this doesn't happen in your state and make sure Desantis doesn't become President.

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Fellow former Floridian who retired to Spain. It breaks my heart to see what DeSantis is doing to my state. Given that the right to privacy is enshrined in our state constitution, I feel that there is a good case for challenging the constitutionality of a six week ban. The people of Florida voted TWICE to protect a person's right to privacy as it was outlined under Roe. DeSantis is trying to circumvent that by making the restriction so tight that it is effectively an outright ban without actually banning abortion. I'm hopeful that there will be many legal challenges to this f*ckery. (Slate's article on the FL constitutional protection is here: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/florida-15-week-abortion-ban-state-constitution-privacy-rights.html )

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The problem will be the judges, though. The court that used to rule responsibly last decade is long gone.

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Fellow devastated Floridian here. It's so hard to feel invisible and powerless while the legislature turns our state into a fascist neo-Hungary. DeSantis really is the worst and the enabling goons in the statehouse just compound it

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Mar 24, 2023·edited Mar 24, 2023

Great insights and an excellent post. I don't know. I just feel like those of us who are watching this in real time are seeing how much we've become like Weimar Germany in the 1920s, a relatively liberal society beset with lots of economic and societal turmoil, that is brick by brick becoming a bigoted cruel authoritarian society with tremendous state violence towards out groups. That the GOP has pivoted within months from "women safety" to "women should face the death penalty" tells us that we're really not in a situation where we can work toward a common good. I can't persuade someone who thinks a woman should be executed for asserting her basic human rights. I can't seek common ground with someone who thinks children should bear children. It's distressing. Just need to emote. I don't really have an idea how we're going to fix it other than just going down fighting until the bitter end.

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founding

I am sad that collective action is not a tool our country knows how to wield well. If every man, woman, nonbinary or trans walked out on our economy for two days - would the religious minority still be able to hold us by our throats?

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I just read a story in the NY Times about a Sarasota hospital board take-over...due to its COVID protocols. Quote from new board member, elected under the "health freedom" banner:

"Mr. Rohe said that he and the other new board members do not want to force doctors to prescribe treatments they “do not believe in” or that go against their medical judgment. But, he added, “We feel that a person’s health decisions should be made by that person in consultation with their physician. We don’t feel that it should be made one-size-fits-all, made in Washington, or by some insurance company.”

So why doesn't this apply to women's health care?

Link to article (might be behind paywall): https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/19/us/covid-florida-sarasota-memorial-hospital.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-us-politics&variant=show&region=MAIN_CONTENT_1&block=storyline_top_links_recirc#

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Because it applies to a 'person''. So that would be men, and fetuses.

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Exactly 🙄

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They have no trouble with and lose no sleep over their double standards or their internal inconsistencies. We are witnessing this daily.

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Good question. Because they want to exert their control over women and girls and they don't care one bit if they are hypocritical in doing it. To them, their ends justify their means. Same way they say "states rights" and then call for a national ban. Same way they say "it's the democratic process" and then try to subvert ballot measures. Same way they say "the rule of law" and then pervert the law (hello Texas vigilante state) to achieve their oppression. It's about power. It's because "they can."

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Yes! Where is the outrage?? The idea that there is someone else to do the heavy lifting is false! Wake up people, reproductive right belong to everyone!!

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