My favorite part of being on the dating apps is that they state right in their bios "republican" or "conservative" (among other pointed signs of misogyny). Easy to swipe left and and bypass that whole mess. I'll admit that dating on the apps sucks most of the time, but that one little silver lining means I don't have to listen to a guy spew vitriol through a beer before I make my excuses and leave.
The insistent return (if there was ever a moving away from) to patriarchy and male domination is a threat to all of us. Americans are not in much agreement about sexism. Our masculine culture favors strength, aggression, individual rights, and not backing down. Changing a culture takes a very long time. Men can't survive to be all those things without women holding up the domestic side of life. The anger at women for not being content to serve men is driving so much of this misogyny. No person should fear what another can do to her every single day. The lack of accountability for these men's actions convinces them they are right.
Yes, changing a culture does take a very long time. I hope that men are being held at least somewhat more accountable for their actions in our time, even if only through public shaming, which I suspect has to be the first phase of a cultural change, with institutions eventually following the people. This is my great hope, that the younger generations are so much better than the ones before, in all situations that call for empathy, and that this will ultimately be reflected in the culture and its institutions. That hope might be illusory; I guess we'll have to check back in a few decades.
This is so great. Fuck these guys. As if they don’t have a choice about their political beliefs. They weren’t born with them. Love this piece, Jessica. Definitely going to share.
The silver lining, I think, of the horrors we've witnessed over the past six years, is that it means we're finally making enough progress that these people actually feel threatened. I'm aware that as a white man I'm unlikely to be one of their victims, so I don't want to minimize anything by looking for a positive. But now we've just got to win the war they've started, which does give me anxiety to no end.
One particularly frightening aspect of the arguments that this piece is about, becomes apparent if you follow the logic. Bigotry, I think, would be discriminating against someone for something they are powerless over, like race, genetic or ethnic heritage, sex, sexual orientation, or disability. What those who are making these arguments seem to be suggesting is that men are powerless over their conservatism.
At first that notion is laughable. But throughout human history, it has been women who adapt to male preferences and male needs, and rarely the other way around. It is only in recent years that women are beginning to find themselves in a position in which they may actually be able to indicate that they no longer wish to do this. And the reaction from what appears to be a majority of men has been madness and apoplexy.
The argument being made is that men simply cannot adapt to a world in which women and men are equal. I think that's bullshit, but what's scary to me is that I'm not sure how much evidence there is for the alternative. I think we just haven't successfully created those conditions of equality, on a large enough scale, to test it.
I always remember that humans are animals, and that's sobering. I think feminism is rarely about women; it's about the evil that men do and how to respond to it. The problem of civilizing men has bedeviled humanity forever. We have to solve it if we're going to be able to save the species and the planet.
Either men get trained better or the only solutions start to sound like science fiction. I can only hope that the slow progress that's been made over generations can continue. Everything depends on it.
That's very kind of you; thank you! I do know that I'm unusual and I don't know how to get more men to be more empathetic. I credit my late mother, and her particular combination of personality traits, for making me who I am.
I just now posted my comment in which I was thinking of and hinted at that very solution! :-D Men and our testosterone may be useful in primitive conditions. But in an environment of reasonably advanced civilization, they are antithetical. I think most of the world's problems come down to ego and intransigence - and those mostly come from men.
From the article- "trump supporters get the short end of the dating stick"! this actually made me spit out some of my lunch laughing today. thanks again for delivering perfectly cutting commentary on yet another example of entitlement to women
I am shocked, shocked to learn there is a (certain type of) male university nerd - incel Venn diagram intersection.
Seriously though, fuck them. All right, perhaps that needs rephrasing.
Anyway, you are right, of course.
These incels and professors act as if we are already living in Gilead - and God knows they wish we were - but for now we can still say, 'Die a virgin, you racist & misogynist piece of runny shit.'
(Also, I'm so not surprised even Republican women have standards. Channelling that stupid 'weaker sex' thing: women may not have the same muscular mass but it's not women who are the 'thick-as-Eric-Trump sex'.
The point about Republican women was interesting. For whatever reason they still identify as Republican, but even they've had enough. I don't know if women from conservative environments can get through to men in a way that the rest of us seem to be failing at; or if they have the desire to do so.
I'm not sure you can get through to people who have self-radicalised to such an extent that they have gone from voter to cult member.
As for Republican women; you always have to be careful not to over-generalise but generally speaking they still buy into that old spiel that women and men live in different worlds, or in one world where their roles are both so separate and different that it feels like different worlds. In other words, in that environment the men are as unlikely to listen to women as it is for women to think they can or should change men.
During that 'locker room talk' scandal most Republican women on camera shrugged it off as part of 'This is just how men are.' It's encouraging to know that they have some standards but it would be wildly optimistic to hope they would stop standing by their men as long as the latter aren't totally monstrous but just your middle of the road Republican misogynists.
That's interesting. I guess the question becomes what happens when their different world as women gets encroached on too far by this kind of stuff. Maybe at the margins some change their ways, I don't know.
Well, that's why I started with warning (myself mostly) not to overgeneralise too much.
I also don't know, of course. I'm sure quite a few traditionally Republican women do feel less and less at home in 'their' party - and I have always assumed that many women raised in conservative environments may not speak out against the party but may vote for Democratic candidates in the privacy of the voting booth.
Still, it seems people really tend to be very tribal when it comes to political parties. The way generations of families support the same sports teams: they don't support the coach or the players or the tactics... all of those come and go. For the generational voter/fan it's ultimately only the name they support, not what a party or club does.
My favorite part of being on the dating apps is that they state right in their bios "republican" or "conservative" (among other pointed signs of misogyny). Easy to swipe left and and bypass that whole mess. I'll admit that dating on the apps sucks most of the time, but that one little silver lining means I don't have to listen to a guy spew vitriol through a beer before I make my excuses and leave.
Read Sarah Schulman’s “Conflict Is Not Abuse”.
The insistent return (if there was ever a moving away from) to patriarchy and male domination is a threat to all of us. Americans are not in much agreement about sexism. Our masculine culture favors strength, aggression, individual rights, and not backing down. Changing a culture takes a very long time. Men can't survive to be all those things without women holding up the domestic side of life. The anger at women for not being content to serve men is driving so much of this misogyny. No person should fear what another can do to her every single day. The lack of accountability for these men's actions convinces them they are right.
Yes, changing a culture does take a very long time. I hope that men are being held at least somewhat more accountable for their actions in our time, even if only through public shaming, which I suspect has to be the first phase of a cultural change, with institutions eventually following the people. This is my great hope, that the younger generations are so much better than the ones before, in all situations that call for empathy, and that this will ultimately be reflected in the culture and its institutions. That hope might be illusory; I guess we'll have to check back in a few decades.
This is so great. Fuck these guys. As if they don’t have a choice about their political beliefs. They weren’t born with them. Love this piece, Jessica. Definitely going to share.
The silver lining, I think, of the horrors we've witnessed over the past six years, is that it means we're finally making enough progress that these people actually feel threatened. I'm aware that as a white man I'm unlikely to be one of their victims, so I don't want to minimize anything by looking for a positive. But now we've just got to win the war they've started, which does give me anxiety to no end.
One particularly frightening aspect of the arguments that this piece is about, becomes apparent if you follow the logic. Bigotry, I think, would be discriminating against someone for something they are powerless over, like race, genetic or ethnic heritage, sex, sexual orientation, or disability. What those who are making these arguments seem to be suggesting is that men are powerless over their conservatism.
At first that notion is laughable. But throughout human history, it has been women who adapt to male preferences and male needs, and rarely the other way around. It is only in recent years that women are beginning to find themselves in a position in which they may actually be able to indicate that they no longer wish to do this. And the reaction from what appears to be a majority of men has been madness and apoplexy.
The argument being made is that men simply cannot adapt to a world in which women and men are equal. I think that's bullshit, but what's scary to me is that I'm not sure how much evidence there is for the alternative. I think we just haven't successfully created those conditions of equality, on a large enough scale, to test it.
I always remember that humans are animals, and that's sobering. I think feminism is rarely about women; it's about the evil that men do and how to respond to it. The problem of civilizing men has bedeviled humanity forever. We have to solve it if we're going to be able to save the species and the planet.
Either men get trained better or the only solutions start to sound like science fiction. I can only hope that the slow progress that's been made over generations can continue. Everything depends on it.
That's very kind of you; thank you! I do know that I'm unusual and I don't know how to get more men to be more empathetic. I credit my late mother, and her particular combination of personality traits, for making me who I am.
I just can't wait till we figure out parthenogenesis, is all I can say.
I just now posted my comment in which I was thinking of and hinted at that very solution! :-D Men and our testosterone may be useful in primitive conditions. But in an environment of reasonably advanced civilization, they are antithetical. I think most of the world's problems come down to ego and intransigence - and those mostly come from men.
ummmmm hilarious. thanks for bringing some joy to my day.
From the article- "trump supporters get the short end of the dating stick"! this actually made me spit out some of my lunch laughing today. thanks again for delivering perfectly cutting commentary on yet another example of entitlement to women
Well said!!
I am shocked, shocked to learn there is a (certain type of) male university nerd - incel Venn diagram intersection.
Seriously though, fuck them. All right, perhaps that needs rephrasing.
Anyway, you are right, of course.
These incels and professors act as if we are already living in Gilead - and God knows they wish we were - but for now we can still say, 'Die a virgin, you racist & misogynist piece of runny shit.'
(Also, I'm so not surprised even Republican women have standards. Channelling that stupid 'weaker sex' thing: women may not have the same muscular mass but it's not women who are the 'thick-as-Eric-Trump sex'.
Disclaimer: Not all men bla di bla.)
The point about Republican women was interesting. For whatever reason they still identify as Republican, but even they've had enough. I don't know if women from conservative environments can get through to men in a way that the rest of us seem to be failing at; or if they have the desire to do so.
I'm not sure you can get through to people who have self-radicalised to such an extent that they have gone from voter to cult member.
As for Republican women; you always have to be careful not to over-generalise but generally speaking they still buy into that old spiel that women and men live in different worlds, or in one world where their roles are both so separate and different that it feels like different worlds. In other words, in that environment the men are as unlikely to listen to women as it is for women to think they can or should change men.
During that 'locker room talk' scandal most Republican women on camera shrugged it off as part of 'This is just how men are.' It's encouraging to know that they have some standards but it would be wildly optimistic to hope they would stop standing by their men as long as the latter aren't totally monstrous but just your middle of the road Republican misogynists.
That's interesting. I guess the question becomes what happens when their different world as women gets encroached on too far by this kind of stuff. Maybe at the margins some change their ways, I don't know.
Well, that's why I started with warning (myself mostly) not to overgeneralise too much.
I also don't know, of course. I'm sure quite a few traditionally Republican women do feel less and less at home in 'their' party - and I have always assumed that many women raised in conservative environments may not speak out against the party but may vote for Democratic candidates in the privacy of the voting booth.
Still, it seems people really tend to be very tribal when it comes to political parties. The way generations of families support the same sports teams: they don't support the coach or the players or the tactics... all of those come and go. For the generational voter/fan it's ultimately only the name they support, not what a party or club does.
Guess I’m a bigot then. 🙅🏻♀️🍆🐘