When my son was a baby/toddler he was obsessed with trucks, construction vehicles and buses. We were at my daughter's softball practice and the field was near a busy intersection, but there was a fence all the way around it, so I could let him run free. A bus went by and he screamed "BUS! BUS! BUS!" over and over and over. He was so excited and he couldn't understand why the rest of us weren't. Surely if we could see it, we'd be just as excited as him. The is how I feel when I read about stuff like this. If people in Florida realized that candidates that vote against women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies don't think women are full human beings capable of making logical decisions, then they would vote for the other candidates. How do we get them all to see what is going on? BUS! BUS!
Yesterday I saw 'military leaders wrote in The Washington Post this week that abortion access is a national security issue. Former secretaries of the Army, Navy and Air Force point to the mifepristone case heading to the Supreme Court, noting that “threatening vital reproductive health care will only make it harder to recruit and retain women across the military and meet the security challenges of a dangerous world.” Jeez, unbeliEVILable!!! The doomsday clock is advancing.
Jessica often says that Republicans don't care what voters want. My newsletter this coming Friday is a deep dive into what drives this behavior. We should be able to predict this and get out ahead of it on every issue. I hope my work helps Democrats act more strategically.
While I understand why viability gets included, I also believe we should be going for no less than what we want: Abortion any time, for any reason. If this ballot initiative with viability successfully protects abortion for one of the only remaining Southern states, I'll celebrate that win. But we need to elect enough Democrats to get a federal right enshrined into our Constitution and/or a federal law passed that makes abortion a decision between a woman and her doctor.
In the 1980s, Morgentaler was prosecuted again for providing abortions. In 1988, his case R. v Morgentaler went to the Supreme Court. It evaluated his actions this time in relation to the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court found that the Criminal Code provision on abortion violated a woman’s right to “life, liberty and security of the person” guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter. Chief Justice Brian Dickson wrote: “Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus [sic] to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman’s body and thus a violation of her security of the person.”
Specifically, the court did not say there was an inherent right to abortion under the Charter. Rather, it said the system regulating access to abortions — particularly the hospital review committees that were meant to approve abortion requests — had so many barriers and operated so poorly that it was “manifestly unfair.” As a result, the abortion law was struck down. (It was repealed entirely in 2019.) Because no other law has replaced it, abortion has remained legal throughout Canada since 1988.
It looks like the court should have a majority of Trudeau appointees for at least a few more years, should a new Tory government try to pass restrictions.
I love my Prime Minister, he was my lifeline during the orangeanus' misrule. Sadly, when I lived in British Columbia, (I left FL when my state and the SC gave Bush ll (shrub) the presidency. Harper (the conservative) was PM, and the rumor was Papa Trudeau's boy was going to run. . We moved to California just in time to see Pres. Obama elcted.
Alas he's very unpopular now. If the parties to the left of the Tories had a way to merge for the election it might be close (probably depends who the choice for PM is), but it seems far more likely that Pierre Poilievre will lead the next government. I'm not sure how they would govern in practice compared to other conservative parties around the world at this time.
Yes I think we desperately need strategy. Your perspective as someone who has escaped the other side is so valuable, because it seems all too common to just not understand these conservatives, which really limits us.
Not related to Florida but to the general topic here, I'm linking a comment thread from another substack because I'm wondering if there's anything I could have said better or differently to make the case. If anyone is interested and has any tips, I'm grateful.
you did a good job. People love to argue in bad faith about abortions in the same way they do healthcare for trans children - point out the one unethical outlier and use it as an example of why the health care should be banned entirely. As if there aren't unethical physicians in nearly every field.
Yes, bold, italic, strikethrough, all have useful editorial applications, but idk that any of them can be done on substack. Although I'm using the app (which also doesn't have 'edit comment') so maybe there's more on the website. But then not sure if it would show up to app users? 🤷 It would be a nice feature to have.
This dumbing down/both sides approach is part of a strategic takeover of major news outlets. They wanted to go after more conservative readers/viewers. We've seen it at CNN, The NY Times and more. They've brought in more conservative writers and editors who purposely muddy the waters.
The NY Times pivoted toward their current format because they were losing subscribers. Much of that was a result of poor business decision making on their part, but they've also been impacted by how much people read for free online.
That's why I believe it is very important to financially support outlets that provide good journalism, whether it be this Substack or The Guardian (my go-to). This is happening in part because of what WE value as Americans.
Also, I read your comment, and I thought you parsed it well.
WaPo also got into hiring more conservatives, seeking to get more maga subscribers, (they even hired one to write their more embarrassing headlines) and thanks to the Reagan fanboy publisher, they had a huge stable of idiots already. CNN was acquired by John Malone the evil man responsible for the rise of (so-called) reality TV because it is cheap to make. Al Gore referred to him as "Darth Vader" he bought CNN to turn it into Fox-lite. The first thing they did was have the Orangeanus on in a 'townhall' with no pushback on his lies. The NYT is the paper of keepiing the status quo, and their tax-cuts democracy be damned.
Thank you. Yes I've learned to trust The Guardian the most too.
Silver is on our side, definitely more liberal than progressive, and he usually does a pretty good job pointing out when there is flawed thinking on our side, which I think is really valuable to not be caught in a bubble. And I trust him on data/numbers more than the vast majority of sources.
I suspect that when the anti people use a word like 'abortionist', Kermit Gosnell is exactly the kind of thing they are thinking. It's the only case I know of where the crazy things they say seem to have actually manifested in reality. So I felt like I should be able to explain that to someone.
I always correct them there is no such medical term as "abortionist." They are highly trained OB/GYNs that perform many surgical procedures. I tell them they sound ignorant.
I always ask them if they call their Podiatrist a "Bunionist"? Because that is how stupid it is.
Yeah I was thinking if someone led a relatively sheltered existence and the only thing they knew about abortion was Kermit Gosnell. That should never happen but then there are a lot of fucked up people out there so idk.
I read the part of that thread that I had access to & I think you made some excellent arguments & explainations. I am on the side of No Exceptions & leave it to the Dr & pt to do the medical & moral decision making. As you stated & as I have also in many other comments; no Dr is going to abort a healthy near full-term fetus because a woman just changed her mind about wanting it.
That is just insulting to women & to medical personnel
Was Kermit named after the Muppet? Interesting thread in that link. Yesterday trumpy dumpy and the parking garage gang got reamed by the courts. If a president is legally permitted to do whatever they please without consequences then they could call seal team 6 to asasinate any perceived enemies. No both sideism about it.
Thanks for reading it. I actually thought Kermit Gosnell was a fairly ingenious reply and I felt like I scrambled to not let it get the better of me. I've seen the other guy on that substack and while he's on the other side he's not a troll, so I wanted to be able to put up a good defense.
Yes, we had a local GYN surgeon here in my town that I had been referred to by my family doctor (who was an absolute dick) I needed surgery and knowing no better, had him perform it. Years later I'm hanging out in the nurses lounge, and we are shooting the breeze, when I hear that surgeon's name. Used in a very derogatory manner. I ask what about him? Oh, he's a woman hater, did a hysterectomy, and the patient turned out to have been pregnant. I say I had surgery years ago by him when I was 19. They said well good that you survived it...
The thing about 'viability' is that if a healthy fetus could live outside the uterus, what doctor is going to terminate the pregnancy unless in the specific case it's impossible to both deliver and save the pregnant person? There are pregnancies after 24 weeks that are not viable, and care in those cases should be protected.
I wonder that as well. I think they are outvoted by the magas who moved here in droves, during and after the pandemic, when our lunatic gov waved them all in with relaxed rules.
Palm Beach and Broward still vote Democrat but not sure if the margins are shrinking. Yes there is a lot of flux in the Florida population as retirees age and pass away and lots of new retirees from out of state move in. And yes it has been a MAGA hotspot, moving to the right while Texas (ever so slowly) shifts in the other direction.
Something so intimate and personal. An event that is unique to the woman experiencing it. Appalling that we live in a society that so arrogantly and callously disregards the female person with such condescension. My heart is broken.
When my son was a baby/toddler he was obsessed with trucks, construction vehicles and buses. We were at my daughter's softball practice and the field was near a busy intersection, but there was a fence all the way around it, so I could let him run free. A bus went by and he screamed "BUS! BUS! BUS!" over and over and over. He was so excited and he couldn't understand why the rest of us weren't. Surely if we could see it, we'd be just as excited as him. The is how I feel when I read about stuff like this. If people in Florida realized that candidates that vote against women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies don't think women are full human beings capable of making logical decisions, then they would vote for the other candidates. How do we get them all to see what is going on? BUS! BUS!
FYI: As the worm turns...anti-abortion groups' studies retracted before SCOTUS mifepristone case in March:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/02/anti-abortion-groups-studies-retracted-before-supreme-court-mifepristone-case/
If they can't win, they'll cheat. We see it time and time again. It's unreal, but I suppose not shocking considering they do it every time.
Yesterday I saw 'military leaders wrote in The Washington Post this week that abortion access is a national security issue. Former secretaries of the Army, Navy and Air Force point to the mifepristone case heading to the Supreme Court, noting that “threatening vital reproductive health care will only make it harder to recruit and retain women across the military and meet the security challenges of a dangerous world.” Jeez, unbeliEVILable!!! The doomsday clock is advancing.
The is what mr. Potato head Tuberville wants though, women and trans, and gay people out of the military.
Jessica often says that Republicans don't care what voters want. My newsletter this coming Friday is a deep dive into what drives this behavior. We should be able to predict this and get out ahead of it on every issue. I hope my work helps Democrats act more strategically.
While I understand why viability gets included, I also believe we should be going for no less than what we want: Abortion any time, for any reason. If this ballot initiative with viability successfully protects abortion for one of the only remaining Southern states, I'll celebrate that win. But we need to elect enough Democrats to get a federal right enshrined into our Constitution and/or a federal law passed that makes abortion a decision between a woman and her doctor.
Yes, I really do want abortion "on demand" available...just like they have in Israel.
Is that Canada's policy too?
"1988 Supreme Court Decision
In the 1980s, Morgentaler was prosecuted again for providing abortions. In 1988, his case R. v Morgentaler went to the Supreme Court. It evaluated his actions this time in relation to the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court found that the Criminal Code provision on abortion violated a woman’s right to “life, liberty and security of the person” guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter. Chief Justice Brian Dickson wrote: “Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus [sic] to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman’s body and thus a violation of her security of the person.”
Specifically, the court did not say there was an inherent right to abortion under the Charter. Rather, it said the system regulating access to abortions — particularly the hospital review committees that were meant to approve abortion requests — had so many barriers and operated so poorly that it was “manifestly unfair.” As a result, the abortion law was struck down. (It was repealed entirely in 2019.) Because no other law has replaced it, abortion has remained legal throughout Canada since 1988.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/abortion
It looks like the court should have a majority of Trudeau appointees for at least a few more years, should a new Tory government try to pass restrictions.
I love my Prime Minister, he was my lifeline during the orangeanus' misrule. Sadly, when I lived in British Columbia, (I left FL when my state and the SC gave Bush ll (shrub) the presidency. Harper (the conservative) was PM, and the rumor was Papa Trudeau's boy was going to run. . We moved to California just in time to see Pres. Obama elcted.
Alas he's very unpopular now. If the parties to the left of the Tories had a way to merge for the election it might be close (probably depends who the choice for PM is), but it seems far more likely that Pierre Poilievre will lead the next government. I'm not sure how they would govern in practice compared to other conservative parties around the world at this time.
Yes I think we desperately need strategy. Your perspective as someone who has escaped the other side is so valuable, because it seems all too common to just not understand these conservatives, which really limits us.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/KhPgjqw3fV7htL8J/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Can hear oral argument on this recording. It’s the first case.
Not related to Florida but to the general topic here, I'm linking a comment thread from another substack because I'm wondering if there's anything I could have said better or differently to make the case. If anyone is interested and has any tips, I'm grateful.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/not-everything-is-butheremails/comment/48979067?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=l0fb9
You did a great job, you rebutted them very well. You are a great ally.
you did a good job. People love to argue in bad faith about abortions in the same way they do healthcare for trans children - point out the one unethical outlier and use it as an example of why the health care should be banned entirely. As if there aren't unethical physicians in nearly every field.
THIS, THIS, THIS and THIS^^^^^ sorry for the yelling I can't figure out how to make my comment bold.
Yes, bold, italic, strikethrough, all have useful editorial applications, but idk that any of them can be done on substack. Although I'm using the app (which also doesn't have 'edit comment') so maybe there's more on the website. But then not sure if it would show up to app users? 🤷 It would be a nice feature to have.
Thank you. I try not to argue with those doing it in bad faith but if/when I think it may be coming from a place of ignorance I try to enlighten.
Yeah I do the same. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but if I see that someone may just not know I try to educate if I can.
This dumbing down/both sides approach is part of a strategic takeover of major news outlets. They wanted to go after more conservative readers/viewers. We've seen it at CNN, The NY Times and more. They've brought in more conservative writers and editors who purposely muddy the waters.
The NY Times pivoted toward their current format because they were losing subscribers. Much of that was a result of poor business decision making on their part, but they've also been impacted by how much people read for free online.
That's why I believe it is very important to financially support outlets that provide good journalism, whether it be this Substack or The Guardian (my go-to). This is happening in part because of what WE value as Americans.
Also, I read your comment, and I thought you parsed it well.
WaPo also got into hiring more conservatives, seeking to get more maga subscribers, (they even hired one to write their more embarrassing headlines) and thanks to the Reagan fanboy publisher, they had a huge stable of idiots already. CNN was acquired by John Malone the evil man responsible for the rise of (so-called) reality TV because it is cheap to make. Al Gore referred to him as "Darth Vader" he bought CNN to turn it into Fox-lite. The first thing they did was have the Orangeanus on in a 'townhall' with no pushback on his lies. The NYT is the paper of keepiing the status quo, and their tax-cuts democracy be damned.
Stable of idiots, yes, exactly that.
Thank you. Yes I've learned to trust The Guardian the most too.
Silver is on our side, definitely more liberal than progressive, and he usually does a pretty good job pointing out when there is flawed thinking on our side, which I think is really valuable to not be caught in a bubble. And I trust him on data/numbers more than the vast majority of sources.
I suspect that when the anti people use a word like 'abortionist', Kermit Gosnell is exactly the kind of thing they are thinking. It's the only case I know of where the crazy things they say seem to have actually manifested in reality. So I felt like I should be able to explain that to someone.
I always correct them there is no such medical term as "abortionist." They are highly trained OB/GYNs that perform many surgical procedures. I tell them they sound ignorant.
I always ask them if they call their Podiatrist a "Bunionist"? Because that is how stupid it is.
Yeah I was thinking if someone led a relatively sheltered existence and the only thing they knew about abortion was Kermit Gosnell. That should never happen but then there are a lot of fucked up people out there so idk.
I read the part of that thread that I had access to & I think you made some excellent arguments & explainations. I am on the side of No Exceptions & leave it to the Dr & pt to do the medical & moral decision making. As you stated & as I have also in many other comments; no Dr is going to abort a healthy near full-term fetus because a woman just changed her mind about wanting it.
That is just insulting to women & to medical personnel
Was Kermit named after the Muppet? Interesting thread in that link. Yesterday trumpy dumpy and the parking garage gang got reamed by the courts. If a president is legally permitted to do whatever they please without consequences then they could call seal team 6 to asasinate any perceived enemies. No both sideism about it.
I thought it was a good comment, for whatever that is worth.
Thanks for reading it. I actually thought Kermit Gosnell was a fairly ingenious reply and I felt like I scrambled to not let it get the better of me. I've seen the other guy on that substack and while he's on the other side he's not a troll, so I wanted to be able to put up a good defense.
I had never heard of Gosnell before, and I worked in Sugical suites for twenty years.
Assisted on many gynecological procedures.
Yeah it's one of those once you hear it you can't really unhear it.
Yes, we had a local GYN surgeon here in my town that I had been referred to by my family doctor (who was an absolute dick) I needed surgery and knowing no better, had him perform it. Years later I'm hanging out in the nurses lounge, and we are shooting the breeze, when I hear that surgeon's name. Used in a very derogatory manner. I ask what about him? Oh, he's a woman hater, did a hysterectomy, and the patient turned out to have been pregnant. I say I had surgery years ago by him when I was 19. They said well good that you survived it...
Close call.
The thing about 'viability' is that if a healthy fetus could live outside the uterus, what doctor is going to terminate the pregnancy unless in the specific case it's impossible to both deliver and save the pregnant person? There are pregnancies after 24 weeks that are not viable, and care in those cases should be protected.
If the fetus is determined to be NOT viable outside the womb at ANY point in the pregnancy by a medical services provider, abortion shall be provided.
I like that language!
Endless trampling of women — and when a female AG is doing it, with a healthy cohort in the FLLeg and High Court — it’s infuriating 🤬
That is why they put her there, my state sucks so badly since the forced birthers gerrymandered us all to hell. We used to be sane.
Too many MAGAts, they thrive in a subtropical climate.
*sigh!* We used to have all the lovely Jewish retirees in the cities, voting democratic to keep us sane.
There still are, aren't they? It's just that a bunch of other people have moved in. Or idk if the Jewish vote in FL is shifting red too.
I wonder that as well. I think they are outvoted by the magas who moved here in droves, during and after the pandemic, when our lunatic gov waved them all in with relaxed rules.
Palm Beach and Broward still vote Democrat but not sure if the margins are shrinking. Yes there is a lot of flux in the Florida population as retirees age and pass away and lots of new retirees from out of state move in. And yes it has been a MAGA hotspot, moving to the right while Texas (ever so slowly) shifts in the other direction.
Just the usual cruelty to women and girls . . Anthing to force women into the jaws of hell. Vote all Republicans out of office. GD.
Something so intimate and personal. An event that is unique to the woman experiencing it. Appalling that we live in a society that so arrogantly and callously disregards the female person with such condescension. My heart is broken.