There is definitely confusion about what an “abortion” is. When I needed an abortion last year to complete my pregnancy loss, my mom’s friend (who is liberal and a democrat) chided my mom when she told her I’d had an abortion - “well, that’s not an abortion...” Funny because if it’s truly not one, women in red states who need ‘em for medical reasons would be getting them.... and they’re not... It made my mom and me both furious. But I also know from the miscarriage and pregnancy loss silence that women often aren’t talking about the abortions they have in these situations because we aren’t talking about miscarriage and pregnancy loss in general. It’s too damn painful. So we keep silent. I’m trying to find ways to break the silence, but I also don’t begrudge anyone their privacy. That’s another thing that is so frustrating about all of this. If we’re going to change things, we keep having to bare some of the most private, painful experiences we have just to prove to people that abortion is healthcare.
Natalie, sending all the good energy that you get your healthy baby. I’m sorry you experienced this, and even sorrier so many women feel shame and fear.
The procedure used to remove remnants of a pregnancy from a woman's uterus after a miscarriage is called a "dilation and curettage" or "D&C" for short. In a D&C procedure, the cervix is dilated (widened), and a special instrument called a curette is used to remove tissue from the lining of the uterus. This procedure may be done to treat incomplete miscarriages or to investigate the cause of recurrent miscarriages. It's important to note that there are other methods for managing miscarriages, and the choice of procedure may depend on various factors, including the gestational age and individual patient circumstances. Always consult with a healthcare provider for appropriate guidance and care.
I do not know what other "procedures" AI is talking about. I have only ever heard of D&C. The body is not always efficient at completing a miscarriage, returning your uterus to "normal". Abortion happens with a fetus present. A miscarriage results in loss of uterine contents including the fetus. My understanding is you may not even be able to see the fetus if is still early in pregnancy. Also, some of the placenta etc may just stay in the uterus which is dangerous. It can lead to hemhorrage or sepsis. Women who think there is something nobel about not getting a D&C are foolishly risking their health and the future opportunity to try again for a baby.
FWIW, your body does not always release the fetus when you miscarry. When I lost my pregnancy at 17 weeks my water broke too early. I was at risk for sepsis, but the fetus still had cardiac activity. I needed an abortion - or, technical speak, a D&E (dilation & evacuation), which is the name for the procedure in the second trimester.
You are absolutely right. A relative of mine had that exact same experience. In her case the fetus survived to birth (they had a choice -abort and gamble with continuing the pregnancy) but the loss of amniotic fluid happened at a crucial time in development of the infants lungs. It was born with very small, stunted lungs and, even with oxygen, its brain was rapidly deprived of oxygen. It was unbelievably tragic. The little one was finally allowed to pass so it was tragedy heaped on tragedy. There is a happy ending because 2-3 years later they were fortunate to have a full pregnancy and a healthy baby.
She did end up on bed rest towards the end to avoid a repeated loss. And, the baby may have come a few weeks early but with no issues. I will send good intentions your way. I know how terribly important it is. Hang in there.
"Intent" is only one step away from criminal intent. If abortion is "murder," does that make miscarriage negligent homicide? Indeed many women have already been arrested for having miscarriages and stillbirths which Michelle Goodwin wrote about in her book Policing the Womb. A window into our dystopian future.
One of the moms at my kids school delayed cancer treatment in favor of continuing a pregnancy. It is one of those decisions riddled with uncertainty, of course. She died, leaving behind two kids without a mother. I personally would have made a different decision. But it was her decision to make. Of course the horrifying reality is that in many places, this is not a mother’s decision to make at all.
What doesn’t help is the massive disinformation around it either. People have trouble making good decisions under stress when they have all the facts and no one is pressuring them. This is with bad information, under pressure or duress, with extra hormones.
Exactly. These are such fraught personal decisions - and everyone has to make the best one for their family. But this obsession with putting moms who die on a pedestal is TERRIFYING
What really upsets me is that this idea is spreading. The CNN piece last week highlighting Scott Herndon, Idaho candidate, saying that “women should embrace their instinctual ‘sacrificial behavior,’” made me sick. Instinct? Is that like that amorphous “maternal instinct?” If this concept continues to spread, and becomes a cultural norm, how long until it’s codified into the law? Ten years?
Even without a law, it can easily become a way to divide pregnant people into “natural”and “unnatural,” with those unwilling to die as somehow lesser. It’s like dividing women into “sluts” and “good girls,” with all the same sort of moral judgement.
I’m turning onto a real bitch about this situation. As previously mentioned I live in south central Illinois, and that piece of shit state of MO is so fucked up, those women are terrified to receive ANY medical care over there…especially anything that has to do with women’s healthcare. It takes MONTHS to get an appointment for a Pap smear, our OBGYNs are so clogged up. Go back to Missouri and deal with your shit, you want nice things, vote for nice things. But the problem is, they’ll just continue to come over here, while voting Republican at home. Gah.
Someone here is probably supposed to chide you, tell you these women need our help and we need to show solidarity and getting frustrated is what the other side wants, etc. etc., and all those may be true, but I think you're absolutely right to be furious. This beat is basically just a perpetual rotation between anger and fear, and it's anger's turn. I have empathy for good people who are trapped in these hellhole states. But if the majority of people in those states were good they wouldn't BE red states. Illinois (and its taxpayers) are trying to do their best to take care of half of the country because so much of the middle of the country is full of garbage humans. The only real solution is to cull Republican voters. Blue states (and their taxpayers) are right to be tired of subsidizing the vermin. For that matter blue areas within states have had enough of subsidizing the red areas of their states. It's not right that we don't get to be as angry as they are. It's the same people who have been causing the same problems the entire history of this country. They'd gladly kill us all if they could, and if next year's election goes wrong it won't be long before they start. Unfortunately it may have to come to that. The only path out of this may be for things to get worse.
Regarding the valorization of women choosing to die for their fetuses, St. Gianna Molla is one of the leading symbols. When cancer was discovered in her second month of pregnancy, despite already having three children, she chose to die rather than seek treatment. She then passed away a few days after the birth. There is an international pilgrimage center named for her in Illinois, a shrine containing three of her hairs (!) near Green Bay WI, and a guild for medical practitioners that bears her name. The last one is particularly horrifying to me. I won't put links, but the information is all easy to find.
There is definitely confusion about what an “abortion” is. When I needed an abortion last year to complete my pregnancy loss, my mom’s friend (who is liberal and a democrat) chided my mom when she told her I’d had an abortion - “well, that’s not an abortion...” Funny because if it’s truly not one, women in red states who need ‘em for medical reasons would be getting them.... and they’re not... It made my mom and me both furious. But I also know from the miscarriage and pregnancy loss silence that women often aren’t talking about the abortions they have in these situations because we aren’t talking about miscarriage and pregnancy loss in general. It’s too damn painful. So we keep silent. I’m trying to find ways to break the silence, but I also don’t begrudge anyone their privacy. That’s another thing that is so frustrating about all of this. If we’re going to change things, we keep having to bare some of the most private, painful experiences we have just to prove to people that abortion is healthcare.
Natalie, sending all the good energy that you get your healthy baby. I’m sorry you experienced this, and even sorrier so many women feel shame and fear.
The procedure used to remove remnants of a pregnancy from a woman's uterus after a miscarriage is called a "dilation and curettage" or "D&C" for short. In a D&C procedure, the cervix is dilated (widened), and a special instrument called a curette is used to remove tissue from the lining of the uterus. This procedure may be done to treat incomplete miscarriages or to investigate the cause of recurrent miscarriages. It's important to note that there are other methods for managing miscarriages, and the choice of procedure may depend on various factors, including the gestational age and individual patient circumstances. Always consult with a healthcare provider for appropriate guidance and care.
I do not know what other "procedures" AI is talking about. I have only ever heard of D&C. The body is not always efficient at completing a miscarriage, returning your uterus to "normal". Abortion happens with a fetus present. A miscarriage results in loss of uterine contents including the fetus. My understanding is you may not even be able to see the fetus if is still early in pregnancy. Also, some of the placenta etc may just stay in the uterus which is dangerous. It can lead to hemhorrage or sepsis. Women who think there is something nobel about not getting a D&C are foolishly risking their health and the future opportunity to try again for a baby.
FWIW, your body does not always release the fetus when you miscarry. When I lost my pregnancy at 17 weeks my water broke too early. I was at risk for sepsis, but the fetus still had cardiac activity. I needed an abortion - or, technical speak, a D&E (dilation & evacuation), which is the name for the procedure in the second trimester.
You are absolutely right. A relative of mine had that exact same experience. In her case the fetus survived to birth (they had a choice -abort and gamble with continuing the pregnancy) but the loss of amniotic fluid happened at a crucial time in development of the infants lungs. It was born with very small, stunted lungs and, even with oxygen, its brain was rapidly deprived of oxygen. It was unbelievably tragic. The little one was finally allowed to pass so it was tragedy heaped on tragedy. There is a happy ending because 2-3 years later they were fortunate to have a full pregnancy and a healthy baby.
Thanks for sharing the happy ending. We still want a child and it's pretty hard to feel hopeful.
She did end up on bed rest towards the end to avoid a repeated loss. And, the baby may have come a few weeks early but with no issues. I will send good intentions your way. I know how terribly important it is. Hang in there.
So the same people who rail against assisted suicide think suicide by pregnancy is noble?
As long as we women die for having sex...they are down with it.
"Intent" is only one step away from criminal intent. If abortion is "murder," does that make miscarriage negligent homicide? Indeed many women have already been arrested for having miscarriages and stillbirths which Michelle Goodwin wrote about in her book Policing the Womb. A window into our dystopian future.
exactly! the focus on intent is very much about criminalization
Thank you for the Comstock Act explainer from July. I have referred back to it many times.
I’m so glad!!
One of the moms at my kids school delayed cancer treatment in favor of continuing a pregnancy. It is one of those decisions riddled with uncertainty, of course. She died, leaving behind two kids without a mother. I personally would have made a different decision. But it was her decision to make. Of course the horrifying reality is that in many places, this is not a mother’s decision to make at all.
What doesn’t help is the massive disinformation around it either. People have trouble making good decisions under stress when they have all the facts and no one is pressuring them. This is with bad information, under pressure or duress, with extra hormones.
Exactly. These are such fraught personal decisions - and everyone has to make the best one for their family. But this obsession with putting moms who die on a pedestal is TERRIFYING
What really upsets me is that this idea is spreading. The CNN piece last week highlighting Scott Herndon, Idaho candidate, saying that “women should embrace their instinctual ‘sacrificial behavior,’” made me sick. Instinct? Is that like that amorphous “maternal instinct?” If this concept continues to spread, and becomes a cultural norm, how long until it’s codified into the law? Ten years?
Even without a law, it can easily become a way to divide pregnant people into “natural”and “unnatural,” with those unwilling to die as somehow lesser. It’s like dividing women into “sluts” and “good girls,” with all the same sort of moral judgement.
I’m turning onto a real bitch about this situation. As previously mentioned I live in south central Illinois, and that piece of shit state of MO is so fucked up, those women are terrified to receive ANY medical care over there…especially anything that has to do with women’s healthcare. It takes MONTHS to get an appointment for a Pap smear, our OBGYNs are so clogged up. Go back to Missouri and deal with your shit, you want nice things, vote for nice things. But the problem is, they’ll just continue to come over here, while voting Republican at home. Gah.
Someone here is probably supposed to chide you, tell you these women need our help and we need to show solidarity and getting frustrated is what the other side wants, etc. etc., and all those may be true, but I think you're absolutely right to be furious. This beat is basically just a perpetual rotation between anger and fear, and it's anger's turn. I have empathy for good people who are trapped in these hellhole states. But if the majority of people in those states were good they wouldn't BE red states. Illinois (and its taxpayers) are trying to do their best to take care of half of the country because so much of the middle of the country is full of garbage humans. The only real solution is to cull Republican voters. Blue states (and their taxpayers) are right to be tired of subsidizing the vermin. For that matter blue areas within states have had enough of subsidizing the red areas of their states. It's not right that we don't get to be as angry as they are. It's the same people who have been causing the same problems the entire history of this country. They'd gladly kill us all if they could, and if next year's election goes wrong it won't be long before they start. Unfortunately it may have to come to that. The only path out of this may be for things to get worse.
I oscillate between being empathetic and wanting to help to being down right angry!
Regarding the valorization of women choosing to die for their fetuses, St. Gianna Molla is one of the leading symbols. When cancer was discovered in her second month of pregnancy, despite already having three children, she chose to die rather than seek treatment. She then passed away a few days after the birth. There is an international pilgrimage center named for her in Illinois, a shrine containing three of her hairs (!) near Green Bay WI, and a guild for medical practitioners that bears her name. The last one is particularly horrifying to me. I won't put links, but the information is all easy to find.
So creepy!