This is not really a comment, but an unrelated question. There is news today (8/5/23) of a better test for pre-eclampsia, which can be a fatal condition. Sometimes, treatment for pre-eclampsia involves early delivery. My question is: is there a difference between an early delivery for pre-eclampsia and an abortion? If a fetus is delivered early, under circumstances where chances of fetal survival are small, can that be considered an abortion under an abortion ban? Another way of putting the question is whether doctors in a state with an abortion ban who deliver a fetus early as a treatment for pre-eclampsia risk being accused of performing an illegal abortion.
Can y’all find out the status of the ballot measure in Florida? As far as I know, they have spent most of their money paying petition gatherers. Which is fine if they are delivering the needed number of petitions. Floridians overwhelmingly support abortion rights, but you know how they cheat, and go against the will of the people. 64% of Floridians support abortion access. With all of our neighboring states outlawing it, Florida was a beacon of abortion tourism. I have abortion medication, 1 course in my safe at home. It’s good until 2025. I have an iud, how do I let people know that I have it and will gladly give it to anyone that needs it, w/o facing legal jeopardy? How can I help other women do what they need to do, w/o risking going to jail? I have a 12 year old boy that needs me, out in the world earning a living for us. But forced motherhood is a terrible fate, and I have to find a way to fight it, and still be out and able to fight again tomorrow.
Women-centered anti-abortion rhetoric, grounded in ostensibly positive beliefs that pregnant people are precious objects who must be protected from having abortions, has proliferated anti-abortion activism and legislation. However, abortion stigma, marked by negative perceptions of people who terminate pregnancies, is the most widely used theoretical tool for understanding the social and psychological implications of abortion. In this article, we first integrate these two seemingly contradictory perspectives on abortion through the lens of ambivalent sexism theory. We then argue that ambivalent sexism paves the way for objectifying perceptions and treatment of pregnant people; specifically, our typology of reproductive objectification provides a tool for exploring how the abortion decision-making of pregnant people is undermined. Through this lens, abortion decisions can represent a subversion of these portrayals and treatment by affirming people who seek and have abortions as whole human beings. Throughout, we aim to counter White supremacy and cisheteropatriarchy, which have marked public discourse and psychological research on abortion. Finally, using this reproductive objectification framework, recommendations for clinicians and researchers are provided.
Thank you for the consistent coverage of all things abortion! I really appreciated the music industry portion as well. Such an interesting perspective that most don't consider.
I clicked through to the article about the suspicious device outside the Kansas clinic and it was updated to say it didn't contain explosives. So that's good news, I guess? Or at least "not as bad as it could have been" news.
The WaPo article about Brooke and Billy and their twins was *heartbreaking*. It's one thing to read The Turnaway Study or imagine what must be happening, but to read an in-depth account of specific people is always different. I hate it when anti-choice shitstains like Ted Cruz are like "see they love their children they were forced to have", like sure, most (but not all!!!) people will try to do right by their children whether they voluntarily had them or not. But it's okay to admit that you would have made a different choice if you'd had that option.
My own mother left my father after nearly 40 years because she wanted to meet her first granddaughter and he wasn't going to permit that. She told me recently that she wonders how things would have gone differently for her if she hadn't married him, and she made sure to add that she doesn't regret having me or my siblings, but she just wonders. And that she's enjoying watching me be single and make my own choices. I hope I wouldn't resent her if she said she would have chosen a different path if she'd know what sort of man my father would turn into. I hope all the children born because their mothers couldn't obtain wanted abortions are loved and taken care of, and I hope they can find the grace and understanding to allow their parents to wonder what might have been.
The other day I was talking with a couple of elderly women in my neighborhood; they were discussing their children and grandchildren, I showed them some pictures of my niece, and mentioned that I'm not going to have children because I just don't want to, and I believe that if you're going to bring a child into this world, that child should be *wanted*. I was a little hesitant because I'm used to people like my father going "but what about your biological clock" and other stupid crap, but both of my neighbors agreed wholeheartedly with me. I don't know which way they'd vote, but in that moment they were allies.
I'll stop rambling now. It's just that the right to bodily autonomy is so fundamental, it touches every aspect of all of our lives. It's hard not to scream into the void.
I wish we focused more on what both of these young parents won’t have because they were forced to have these babies. Sure, plenty of people are decent and will do the right things to care for a human being they were forced to have. But we should mourn what they lost, not hold these situations up as some fantastical success story. It makes me sick, but it’s one more way the right subjugated and demeans women.
It is always ok for a woman to want children. It is always ok for a woman NOT to want children. A woman’s life/value is not defined by motherhood. Unfortunately in many states, a woman’s value is her imprisoned-and-working womb.
I get emails from the Washington Post because I signed up for a free article a while back, so I saw that they had run that story before I read it here. I did not and refuse to read the story itself, because I know it would upset me. I echo what you said. The narrative they're trying to push is, "Hey, anti-abortion isn't so bad. Look here, everything turned out fine!" And if you're that young couple, you have to tell yourself that everything turned out fine if you're going to live with it. And that acceptance, that forced acceptance, of something that very much is a form of slavery, is how it persists.
Right. This is a cultural thing that upsets me on multiple fronts. We do this to people all the time, and not only about pregnancy. We expect people to work when they’re chronically ill. We offer no support for mental illness (unless one is lucky enough to have money and insurance.) We utterly fail most people who are grieving. I could go on. It should be ok to say “this sucks” or “this isn’t fair” or “I didn’t want this” or “I’m really struggling,” but in our society, expressing these things is not ok. It’s like we’re broken on every front and society demands that we praise and edify and be grateful for the break.
Yeah. The right thing to do is support people who are struggling. I think the problem maybe comes in the glorification of the struggle? It seems to be connected to that Christian mindset we characterize as a cult of suffering. At least that's how I'm interpreting what you're saying.
Rambling is okay; that's what this is here for. I very much agree with your concluding statements. It's such a struggle to build a society in which women are free to make their own choices. Sometimes I don't know why our species has to be so cruel.
This isn't an on-point comment. I'd be grateful if you could give advice about where donations would be useful, donations that would help people with travel expenses, medication expenses, and the like. There must be so much need; it's hard to know how to contribute most usefully.
Yeah, reading that gets the blood boiling. I think I understand why it has not and never will be my fate to have any kind of power. You're supposed to be the better person and fight fire with water and so forth, but the ideas that go through my head about what I'd do with these people if it were up to me..... are different from that.
Yeah I guess I would say the things I think of are probably things you would have seen or been exposed to in the military and know that probably don't help in the long run :( It's something in our DNA as a species, idk.
I read an article yesterday about it and workers in the porn industry. By the way, I'm glad u chimed in. I stink at remembering human names and swapped you with Leslie. Googled you and was totally confused which picture(s) were you and if you were also Grace P. .
Be careful about your stress levels. It's good to check in with people in your daily life. I know from experience and I myself take multiple medications and see a therapist. It's not an easy time to be an American.
Hi Zach. Boy, you look really good in your picture considering you're 45. Kidding. Thanks for your concern, but, I really don't get stressed out. Though, based on your profile, I'm somewhat concerned about you. I know too much for my own good, but, I know that stressing out is purposeless. I recommend smoking a doobie..Since you are more then 20 years younger than me, you might be thinking what the f**k is that. It's an antiquated word for joint. Anyway, ta ta , be well. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help to you.
This is not really a comment, but an unrelated question. There is news today (8/5/23) of a better test for pre-eclampsia, which can be a fatal condition. Sometimes, treatment for pre-eclampsia involves early delivery. My question is: is there a difference between an early delivery for pre-eclampsia and an abortion? If a fetus is delivered early, under circumstances where chances of fetal survival are small, can that be considered an abortion under an abortion ban? Another way of putting the question is whether doctors in a state with an abortion ban who deliver a fetus early as a treatment for pre-eclampsia risk being accused of performing an illegal abortion.
Can y’all find out the status of the ballot measure in Florida? As far as I know, they have spent most of their money paying petition gatherers. Which is fine if they are delivering the needed number of petitions. Floridians overwhelmingly support abortion rights, but you know how they cheat, and go against the will of the people. 64% of Floridians support abortion access. With all of our neighboring states outlawing it, Florida was a beacon of abortion tourism. I have abortion medication, 1 course in my safe at home. It’s good until 2025. I have an iud, how do I let people know that I have it and will gladly give it to anyone that needs it, w/o facing legal jeopardy? How can I help other women do what they need to do, w/o risking going to jail? I have a 12 year old boy that needs me, out in the world earning a living for us. But forced motherhood is a terrible fate, and I have to find a way to fight it, and still be out and able to fight again tomorrow.
It got it through ResearchGate. You can sign up for free via Google account.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370821412_Abortion_Decisions_as_Humanizing_Acts_The_Application_of_Ambivalent_Sexism_and_Objectification_to_Women-Centered_Anti-Abortion_Rhetoric
Abortion Decisions as Humanizing Acts: The Application of Ambivalent Sexism and Objectification to Women-Centered Anti-Abortion Rhetoric
Rachel L. Dyer https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0073-3442 rldyer@wisc.edu, Olivia R. Checkalski, and Sarah J. GervaisView all authors and affiliations
OnlineFirst
https://doi.org/10.1177/03616843231173673
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Abstract
Women-centered anti-abortion rhetoric, grounded in ostensibly positive beliefs that pregnant people are precious objects who must be protected from having abortions, has proliferated anti-abortion activism and legislation. However, abortion stigma, marked by negative perceptions of people who terminate pregnancies, is the most widely used theoretical tool for understanding the social and psychological implications of abortion. In this article, we first integrate these two seemingly contradictory perspectives on abortion through the lens of ambivalent sexism theory. We then argue that ambivalent sexism paves the way for objectifying perceptions and treatment of pregnant people; specifically, our typology of reproductive objectification provides a tool for exploring how the abortion decision-making of pregnant people is undermined. Through this lens, abortion decisions can represent a subversion of these portrayals and treatment by affirming people who seek and have abortions as whole human beings. Throughout, we aim to counter White supremacy and cisheteropatriarchy, which have marked public discourse and psychological research on abortion. Finally, using this reproductive objectification framework, recommendations for clinicians and researchers are provided.
Wish had access to this article. It look’s awesome 👏
The young people give me hope. I appreciate all this information. Recently I’ve decided to read this info every few days for my sanity.
It triggers how I felt as a young woman growing up feeling the “patriarchy “ around me in my Catholic upbringing but not knowing the terminology.
So grateful Abortion was available to me at 22yrs. (I’m 62). I’m just so angry and pissed off.
Keeping my chin up and feeling my feelings. Focusing on advocacy. Helping out a healthcare abortion provider later this month.
Focusing on upcoming elections. 👍☮️❤️
Thank you for the consistent coverage of all things abortion! I really appreciated the music industry portion as well. Such an interesting perspective that most don't consider.
I clicked through to the article about the suspicious device outside the Kansas clinic and it was updated to say it didn't contain explosives. So that's good news, I guess? Or at least "not as bad as it could have been" news.
The WaPo article about Brooke and Billy and their twins was *heartbreaking*. It's one thing to read The Turnaway Study or imagine what must be happening, but to read an in-depth account of specific people is always different. I hate it when anti-choice shitstains like Ted Cruz are like "see they love their children they were forced to have", like sure, most (but not all!!!) people will try to do right by their children whether they voluntarily had them or not. But it's okay to admit that you would have made a different choice if you'd had that option.
My own mother left my father after nearly 40 years because she wanted to meet her first granddaughter and he wasn't going to permit that. She told me recently that she wonders how things would have gone differently for her if she hadn't married him, and she made sure to add that she doesn't regret having me or my siblings, but she just wonders. And that she's enjoying watching me be single and make my own choices. I hope I wouldn't resent her if she said she would have chosen a different path if she'd know what sort of man my father would turn into. I hope all the children born because their mothers couldn't obtain wanted abortions are loved and taken care of, and I hope they can find the grace and understanding to allow their parents to wonder what might have been.
The other day I was talking with a couple of elderly women in my neighborhood; they were discussing their children and grandchildren, I showed them some pictures of my niece, and mentioned that I'm not going to have children because I just don't want to, and I believe that if you're going to bring a child into this world, that child should be *wanted*. I was a little hesitant because I'm used to people like my father going "but what about your biological clock" and other stupid crap, but both of my neighbors agreed wholeheartedly with me. I don't know which way they'd vote, but in that moment they were allies.
I'll stop rambling now. It's just that the right to bodily autonomy is so fundamental, it touches every aspect of all of our lives. It's hard not to scream into the void.
I wish we focused more on what both of these young parents won’t have because they were forced to have these babies. Sure, plenty of people are decent and will do the right things to care for a human being they were forced to have. But we should mourn what they lost, not hold these situations up as some fantastical success story. It makes me sick, but it’s one more way the right subjugated and demeans women.
It is always ok for a woman to want children. It is always ok for a woman NOT to want children. A woman’s life/value is not defined by motherhood. Unfortunately in many states, a woman’s value is her imprisoned-and-working womb.
I get emails from the Washington Post because I signed up for a free article a while back, so I saw that they had run that story before I read it here. I did not and refuse to read the story itself, because I know it would upset me. I echo what you said. The narrative they're trying to push is, "Hey, anti-abortion isn't so bad. Look here, everything turned out fine!" And if you're that young couple, you have to tell yourself that everything turned out fine if you're going to live with it. And that acceptance, that forced acceptance, of something that very much is a form of slavery, is how it persists.
Right. This is a cultural thing that upsets me on multiple fronts. We do this to people all the time, and not only about pregnancy. We expect people to work when they’re chronically ill. We offer no support for mental illness (unless one is lucky enough to have money and insurance.) We utterly fail most people who are grieving. I could go on. It should be ok to say “this sucks” or “this isn’t fair” or “I didn’t want this” or “I’m really struggling,” but in our society, expressing these things is not ok. It’s like we’re broken on every front and society demands that we praise and edify and be grateful for the break.
It's like they only got the first part of the serenity prayer, and completely missed the other two.
Yeah. The right thing to do is support people who are struggling. I think the problem maybe comes in the glorification of the struggle? It seems to be connected to that Christian mindset we characterize as a cult of suffering. At least that's how I'm interpreting what you're saying.
Rambling is okay; that's what this is here for. I very much agree with your concluding statements. It's such a struggle to build a society in which women are free to make their own choices. Sometimes I don't know why our species has to be so cruel.
The most helpful perspectives I have found on our species are from Robert Sapolsky.
I love Robert Sapolsky. Brilliant guy.
I’m sooo tired.
This isn't an on-point comment. I'd be grateful if you could give advice about where donations would be useful, donations that would help people with travel expenses, medication expenses, and the like. There must be so much need; it's hard to know how to contribute most usefully.
Jessica and I are working on a resource page that we are hoping to get out soon 💛
That doxxing stuff is absolutely terrifying. Be safe Jessica and Grace.
Yeah, reading that gets the blood boiling. I think I understand why it has not and never will be my fate to have any kind of power. You're supposed to be the better person and fight fire with water and so forth, but the ideas that go through my head about what I'd do with these people if it were up to me..... are different from that.
Yes it def makes me want to do a violence
Yeah I guess I would say the things I think of are probably things you would have seen or been exposed to in the military and know that probably don't help in the long run :( It's something in our DNA as a species, idk.
It is terrifying!
It's very terrifying
I read an article yesterday about it and workers in the porn industry. By the way, I'm glad u chimed in. I stink at remembering human names and swapped you with Leslie. Googled you and was totally confused which picture(s) were you and if you were also Grace P. .
I just checked on Michigan 24 hour wait period, which was unknown to me. It's because of those dam antiabortion nuts!!!
Whew, I am so glad u guys are okay. I've been worried about you for the past couple hours
Be careful about your stress levels. It's good to check in with people in your daily life. I know from experience and I myself take multiple medications and see a therapist. It's not an easy time to be an American.
Me again. Hopefully a single doctor knows about all the meds that you're taking. Multiple meds can definitely f u up.
Hi Zach. Boy, you look really good in your picture considering you're 45. Kidding. Thanks for your concern, but, I really don't get stressed out. Though, based on your profile, I'm somewhat concerned about you. I know too much for my own good, but, I know that stressing out is purposeless. I recommend smoking a doobie..Since you are more then 20 years younger than me, you might be thinking what the f**k is that. It's an antiquated word for joint. Anyway, ta ta , be well. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help to you.