I really love this quotation about the Georgia actress’s thought process, not only her expressive language that’s really shows what this decision means to her, but also the final line where she affirms her own right to autonomy. Her confidence in that affirmation is inspiring. It would be true progress to see every person in America believe that deeply that we each have the authority to make our own decisions.
Is there any interest in joining forces outside of substack to spread and amplify some of this information? Many of us are probably already doing this. But I think I would have more courage and persistence working with others. As a starting point, the ABOG certification issue needs wider exposure targeted to audiences sympathetic to abortion rights, but perhaps not specifically focused on them.
The most important word in this post is ‘defensive.’ I’m sure I’m not the only person who’s tired of being on the defensive, and the best offense is to ask over and over again what the basis is for their opposition to abortion. Bible? Nope. Scientific? (“I watched The Silent Scream.”) Uhh, no. Religion (Christian/Evangelical)? Get behind me, Satan. Do yourself a favor and sleep in on Sundays. Have brunch, maybe a mimosa. Reflect on your life spent lying and attempting to deceive people.
Republican idiocy will eventually catch up to them. I can never tell to what extent they're pretending, but do these morons really not realize the ballot measures are their best friend? If successful, they will prevent them from doing things which are extremely unpopular but which nonetheless they can't seem to stop doing by themselves because such a big portion of their base are crazy people.
I hope and expect the Ohio measure to pass (and the measure to raise the standard to fail), but I also hope Ohio Republicans continue to fight the implementation tooth and nail. There's a hugely important U.S. Senate race there next year, and it would be a big help to us if the abortion issue were not perceived as off the table. Likewise I hope Republicans in Montana keep trying to restrict abortion (the supreme court there has been stopping them) because that's another hugely important U.S. Senate race. Nothing helps Sherrod Brown and Jon Tester, our red state incumbents, like a really important issue that the public agrees with them on, because those states otherwise normally vote Republican.
If we can hold those two seats we'd have a good chance of actually holding the trifecta in 2025, and this time we'd have 50 to scrap the filibuster so we could actually pass legislation to end the madness in the red states and give women their human rights back.
“Republican idiocy will eventually catch up to them. I can never tell to what extent they're pretending, but do these morons really not realize the ballot measures are their best friend? If successful, they will prevent them from doing things which are extremely unpopular but which nonetheless they can't seem to stop doing by themselves because such a big portion of their base are crazy people.“
They have been working toward this moment for decades. They can see their theocratic fascist heaven on the horizon. That kind of thinking makes people do irrational things. It’s a weakness we should attack.
Bingo. But they can't get there themselves. They need the cooperation of a bunch of other Republicans, both voters and politicians. The latter in particular are full of people who care more about power than about any policy. So far they're following along. We need people to start blinking.
Checking in from Missouri. Who here remembers John Ashcroft? Governor of Missouri in the 1980s, then U.S. Senator, then GW Bush's attorney general. Jay is his son. UGGGH.
Yes. I remember him losing his senate re-election bid to a dead man, his successor as governor, the late Mel Carnahan. Those were different times, when there were still (White) Southern Democrats and rural Democrats. Their demise has turned Missouri solidly red :(
An abortion refers to any pregnancy loss prior to 20 weeks as well as an intentional termination of pregnancy at any point during the pregnancy. A pregnancy loss after 20 weeks is a stillbirth.
A pregnancy resulting in a spontaneous abortion (I.e. miscarriage) or stillbirth may require additional intervention for removal of pregnancy tissue. These interventions are the same as those for a termination of pregnancy. Medications can be used at any time during a pregnancy for pregnancy removal. Medication abortion can be offered and in my experience is often the chosen method in the event of fetal anomalies or for pathology to evaluate an intact fetus in the event of a stillbirth from unknown cause. The cervix must dilate enough for the pregnancy tissue to expulsions. Sometimes the pregnant person will have to push depending on how far along in the pregnancy they are. The medications used in the first and second trimester are the similar (though slightly different dosing regimens depending on the gestational age). Those used in the third trimester are the same as used for induction of labor.
A surgical abortion is using instruments to remove pregnancy tissue - often with dilation and suction prior to about 18 weeks and then via dilation and evacuation after that point.
“Late term abortion” has no medical definition and I have no idea what people mean when they say that. Termination of pregnancy that occurs after 20 weeks is most often a result of one of the following: 1. Late diagnosis of pregnancy (often the case for young people or those with irregular periods or failed contraception). 2. Barriers to accessing abortion care such as distance to an abortion provider, financial issues, finding childcare, inability to take time off work, transportation issues, etc. 3. Fetal anomalies. Diagnosis of genetic anomalies requires either a CVS in the first trimester or amniocentesis after that. Genetic testing also often takes at least a week from obtaining the sample to receiving results. Structural anomalies without a known genetic mutation are difficult to identify prior to the 20 week anatomy ultrasound. 4. Risk to maternal life/health either due to complications from pre-existing medical conditions that worsen during pregnancy or from pregnancy related causes such as early severe pre-eclampsia or placental abruption.
I so appreciate this explanation. I did a turn in maternal health but didn’t get anywhere near a complete a picture during my time there as you’ve provided. I want to know as much as I can about third trimester+ details because anti-abortionists demagogue that issue so much. We need to do a better job of storytelling that reality, like the woman who spent days or weeks suffering while her baby seized inside of her, then struggled to breath until dying within 48 hours. This post helps paint the picture.
The third trimester abortions I have provided have all been in the context of lethal fetal anomalies or severely life limiting anomalies that were diagnosed late or there were concerning findings on the anatomy ultrasound and by the time they were referred to a maternal fetal medicine specialist for counseling and additional testing was done to confirm a diagnosis, the patient was into the third trimester. They made the choice to terminate and underwent an induction termination which is an induction of labor similar to what someone with a viable fetus would go through except we don’t do fetal monitoring unless requested by the family and we do not intervene for the fetus as most things in a pregnancy that will benefit a fetus (like a c section) carry more risk for the pregnant person. If there is a live birth (defined as presence of a heartbeat), then these infants receive palliative care until death during which time the family is able to hold them and spend time with them. Often, the labor itself results in fetal demise prior to delivery.
In the cases of maternal health/life risk, if the fetus is at a gestational age where it could survive outside the uterus then the mother’s health is prioritized and delivery via the safest route - sometimes an induction of labor, sometimes c section - is pursued. But in these cases the NICU will be present at delivery to care for the infant after birth. So delivery is done for the sake of the mother but the fetal/infant health is also considered and often both can receive the care they need.
Prior to 20 weeks, a pregnancy loss is considered a miscarriage, and after 20, a stillbirth.
Stillbirth is further classified as either early, late, or term. An early stillbirth is a fetal death occurring between 20 and 27 completed weeks of pregnancy. A late stillbirth occurs between 28 and 36 completed pregnancy weeks. A term stillbirth occurs between 37 or more completed pregnancy weeks.
“Late term” is kind of a complex phrase. Medically, a late term pregnancy is 41 weeks, a post term pregnancy is 42 weeks. Forced birthers use “late term” to refer to later in pregnancy abortions, but they vary at to what they mean by that. Some consider anything beyond first trimester as “late term.” Members of the medical community have criticized the term “late-term” abortion, as it implies abortions are taking place after a pregnancy has reached “term” (37 weeks) or “late term” (>41 weeks) which is false, and the phrase shouldn’t be used in medical or legal settings.
Labor can be induced for a lot of medical reasons, for example, if a pregnancy goes to 42 weeks. It’s not the same thing as abortion.
91% of abortions are performed at or before 13 weeks since the last menstrual period.
Second trimester abortions are done in several different ways. They can be done with medication, like a first trimester abortion. The combination oral mifepristone and vaginally administered misoprostol is a safe, effective and noninvasive regimen for termination of pregnancy between 12 and 20 weeks. The typical surgical option for a second trimester abortion is called a D&E (dilation and extraction). Depending on how far into the second trimester the surgery is performed, and the patient’s medical history, it may be a one or two day outpatient procedure. Dilapan, laminaria, or medication is used to soften and dilate the cervix, and then the uterus is emptied. Some providers will use the vacuum aspiration procedure (used in surgical first trimester abortions) up to about 18-20 weeks. A Google search on second trimester abortion methods will give you more details.
Only about 1% of abortions are performed after 20 weeks in the U.S.
Third trimester abortions are almost always done because of severe fetal abnormality, or because the pregnancy endangers with woman’s health or life. They method will depend on the individual circumstances of the patient. A medical emergency involving the life of the mother, for instance, presents different issues than a healthy woman whose fetus will not survive birth, so differing techniques would be to terminate the pregnancy.
Guttmacher Institute will have the best data. There is also a research team at University of Colorado Boulder that is studying 2nd/3rd tri abortion care. The Nation published a piece about access to this kind of care about a month ago that mentioned the work they are doing and how there is a critical dearth of care past “viability.”
Good questions! I know there are some OBGYNs who post in the comments here and I bet they would probably be the ones who could direct us to some good resources. One can be staunchly pro-choice without having a perfect understanding, but the knowledge is power because it allows us to answer others' questions and to argue against all of the misinformation out there. And ultimately it deepens our commitment too.
I don't know of any resources but I think late abortions are pretty nebulous. Sometimes they're after twelve weeks sometimes twenty. "Late term abortion" is more of a legal term than a medical one. Google says a miscarriage becomes a stillbirth at twenty weeks. I think inducing labor is not the same as an abortion which would be at the point of viability around twenty four weeks. Inducing labor at any point before then would produce an infant unlikely to survive. In the case of fetal abnormalities, they'll induce labor but they'll first inject the uterus with a chemical to stop the fetus' heart. Misoprostol is a drug that causes contractions which is also prescribed for abortions, usually in combination with mifepristone that blocks the pregnancy hormone progesterone. That's all the info that I personally have but maybe someone else has more. There's a few OBGYNs on here so maybe they'll weigh in.
ACOG, the American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists, considers “late term abortion” to be a meaningless phrase that shouldn’t be used in medical or legal context.
Musk is so desperate to keep what right wing grifters he has left before Twitter finally implodes. He was left wing until he kept getting "cancelled" on Twitter and later bought the platform.
However, I think much of what we see as Misogyny from nMusk currently is just jockeying for status with other misogynist billionaires and doing their bidding. He is likely desperate for their investment, due to the fact that no rational (or ethical IMO) person will give him money now.
When I first saw that I read "exes"; ha! Idk enough to say but I do think he fits the profile. Being South African doesn't help his case. Hiring women could be that he sees them as useful subordinates to do his work for him. But I really don't know enough. It's more a suspicion that deep down all jerks are misogynists too.
There's a lot to criticize about Musk. But misogyny doesn't appear to be one of my criticisms. But we'll see how this anti-abortion stuff plays out. I might change my mind.
"Like" seems so inadequate as a thank-you for such important and compelling information, Jessica. ...And I guess there's no getting around that it is time to leave Twitter....
Great idea! But i doubt they’d all be brave enough. Vanderbilt is a private, liberal-leaning, well-resourced university in TN, and their medical center apparently handed over transgender patients’ records to the AG without hesitating. (I guess he asked really nicely or something?) I know it’s not the same situation, but I would guess there are at least some clinic/hospital directors in blue states who’d be easily cowed or tricked into handing over abortion care records. This is why I think the federal rule is important
I really love this quotation about the Georgia actress’s thought process, not only her expressive language that’s really shows what this decision means to her, but also the final line where she affirms her own right to autonomy. Her confidence in that affirmation is inspiring. It would be true progress to see every person in America believe that deeply that we each have the authority to make our own decisions.
I have quite a bit of 'she had an abortion ' so she could fit in her jeans' crap on a few RW sites re Celeste Burgess. Its so frustrating
Is there any interest in joining forces outside of substack to spread and amplify some of this information? Many of us are probably already doing this. But I think I would have more courage and persistence working with others. As a starting point, the ABOG certification issue needs wider exposure targeted to audiences sympathetic to abortion rights, but perhaps not specifically focused on them.
The most important word in this post is ‘defensive.’ I’m sure I’m not the only person who’s tired of being on the defensive, and the best offense is to ask over and over again what the basis is for their opposition to abortion. Bible? Nope. Scientific? (“I watched The Silent Scream.”) Uhh, no. Religion (Christian/Evangelical)? Get behind me, Satan. Do yourself a favor and sleep in on Sundays. Have brunch, maybe a mimosa. Reflect on your life spent lying and attempting to deceive people.
Republican idiocy will eventually catch up to them. I can never tell to what extent they're pretending, but do these morons really not realize the ballot measures are their best friend? If successful, they will prevent them from doing things which are extremely unpopular but which nonetheless they can't seem to stop doing by themselves because such a big portion of their base are crazy people.
I hope and expect the Ohio measure to pass (and the measure to raise the standard to fail), but I also hope Ohio Republicans continue to fight the implementation tooth and nail. There's a hugely important U.S. Senate race there next year, and it would be a big help to us if the abortion issue were not perceived as off the table. Likewise I hope Republicans in Montana keep trying to restrict abortion (the supreme court there has been stopping them) because that's another hugely important U.S. Senate race. Nothing helps Sherrod Brown and Jon Tester, our red state incumbents, like a really important issue that the public agrees with them on, because those states otherwise normally vote Republican.
If we can hold those two seats we'd have a good chance of actually holding the trifecta in 2025, and this time we'd have 50 to scrap the filibuster so we could actually pass legislation to end the madness in the red states and give women their human rights back.
“Republican idiocy will eventually catch up to them. I can never tell to what extent they're pretending, but do these morons really not realize the ballot measures are their best friend? If successful, they will prevent them from doing things which are extremely unpopular but which nonetheless they can't seem to stop doing by themselves because such a big portion of their base are crazy people.“
They have been working toward this moment for decades. They can see their theocratic fascist heaven on the horizon. That kind of thinking makes people do irrational things. It’s a weakness we should attack.
Bingo. But they can't get there themselves. They need the cooperation of a bunch of other Republicans, both voters and politicians. The latter in particular are full of people who care more about power than about any policy. So far they're following along. We need people to start blinking.
Checking in from Missouri. Who here remembers John Ashcroft? Governor of Missouri in the 1980s, then U.S. Senator, then GW Bush's attorney general. Jay is his son. UGGGH.
Thanks! I was wondering if there was a family connection there.
Yes. I remember him losing his senate re-election bid to a dead man, his successor as governor, the late Mel Carnahan. Those were different times, when there were still (White) Southern Democrats and rural Democrats. Their demise has turned Missouri solidly red :(
Can anyone on here direct me to info on late term abortions?
I really know nothing about them and would like to educate myself so I can
better understand and arm myself with the correct information.
For instance I think of a miscarriage in the first two semesters what is it called in the
third - a still birth? What is a still birth? Is inducing labor the same as an abortion?
I could go on and on. It is obvious I have never given birth and still don't understand
this female body I have inhabited for 50 years! Thank goodness for Call the Midwife ;)
Thanks in advance.
OB/GYN here.
An abortion refers to any pregnancy loss prior to 20 weeks as well as an intentional termination of pregnancy at any point during the pregnancy. A pregnancy loss after 20 weeks is a stillbirth.
A pregnancy resulting in a spontaneous abortion (I.e. miscarriage) or stillbirth may require additional intervention for removal of pregnancy tissue. These interventions are the same as those for a termination of pregnancy. Medications can be used at any time during a pregnancy for pregnancy removal. Medication abortion can be offered and in my experience is often the chosen method in the event of fetal anomalies or for pathology to evaluate an intact fetus in the event of a stillbirth from unknown cause. The cervix must dilate enough for the pregnancy tissue to expulsions. Sometimes the pregnant person will have to push depending on how far along in the pregnancy they are. The medications used in the first and second trimester are the similar (though slightly different dosing regimens depending on the gestational age). Those used in the third trimester are the same as used for induction of labor.
A surgical abortion is using instruments to remove pregnancy tissue - often with dilation and suction prior to about 18 weeks and then via dilation and evacuation after that point.
“Late term abortion” has no medical definition and I have no idea what people mean when they say that. Termination of pregnancy that occurs after 20 weeks is most often a result of one of the following: 1. Late diagnosis of pregnancy (often the case for young people or those with irregular periods or failed contraception). 2. Barriers to accessing abortion care such as distance to an abortion provider, financial issues, finding childcare, inability to take time off work, transportation issues, etc. 3. Fetal anomalies. Diagnosis of genetic anomalies requires either a CVS in the first trimester or amniocentesis after that. Genetic testing also often takes at least a week from obtaining the sample to receiving results. Structural anomalies without a known genetic mutation are difficult to identify prior to the 20 week anatomy ultrasound. 4. Risk to maternal life/health either due to complications from pre-existing medical conditions that worsen during pregnancy or from pregnancy related causes such as early severe pre-eclampsia or placental abruption.
Hope that helps!
I so appreciate this explanation. I did a turn in maternal health but didn’t get anywhere near a complete a picture during my time there as you’ve provided. I want to know as much as I can about third trimester+ details because anti-abortionists demagogue that issue so much. We need to do a better job of storytelling that reality, like the woman who spent days or weeks suffering while her baby seized inside of her, then struggled to breath until dying within 48 hours. This post helps paint the picture.
The third trimester abortions I have provided have all been in the context of lethal fetal anomalies or severely life limiting anomalies that were diagnosed late or there were concerning findings on the anatomy ultrasound and by the time they were referred to a maternal fetal medicine specialist for counseling and additional testing was done to confirm a diagnosis, the patient was into the third trimester. They made the choice to terminate and underwent an induction termination which is an induction of labor similar to what someone with a viable fetus would go through except we don’t do fetal monitoring unless requested by the family and we do not intervene for the fetus as most things in a pregnancy that will benefit a fetus (like a c section) carry more risk for the pregnant person. If there is a live birth (defined as presence of a heartbeat), then these infants receive palliative care until death during which time the family is able to hold them and spend time with them. Often, the labor itself results in fetal demise prior to delivery.
In the cases of maternal health/life risk, if the fetus is at a gestational age where it could survive outside the uterus then the mother’s health is prioritized and delivery via the safest route - sometimes an induction of labor, sometimes c section - is pursued. But in these cases the NICU will be present at delivery to care for the infant after birth. So delivery is done for the sake of the mother but the fetal/infant health is also considered and often both can receive the care they need.
Thanks!
Prior to 20 weeks, a pregnancy loss is considered a miscarriage, and after 20, a stillbirth.
Stillbirth is further classified as either early, late, or term. An early stillbirth is a fetal death occurring between 20 and 27 completed weeks of pregnancy. A late stillbirth occurs between 28 and 36 completed pregnancy weeks. A term stillbirth occurs between 37 or more completed pregnancy weeks.
“Late term” is kind of a complex phrase. Medically, a late term pregnancy is 41 weeks, a post term pregnancy is 42 weeks. Forced birthers use “late term” to refer to later in pregnancy abortions, but they vary at to what they mean by that. Some consider anything beyond first trimester as “late term.” Members of the medical community have criticized the term “late-term” abortion, as it implies abortions are taking place after a pregnancy has reached “term” (37 weeks) or “late term” (>41 weeks) which is false, and the phrase shouldn’t be used in medical or legal settings.
Labor can be induced for a lot of medical reasons, for example, if a pregnancy goes to 42 weeks. It’s not the same thing as abortion.
91% of abortions are performed at or before 13 weeks since the last menstrual period.
Second trimester abortions are done in several different ways. They can be done with medication, like a first trimester abortion. The combination oral mifepristone and vaginally administered misoprostol is a safe, effective and noninvasive regimen for termination of pregnancy between 12 and 20 weeks. The typical surgical option for a second trimester abortion is called a D&E (dilation and extraction). Depending on how far into the second trimester the surgery is performed, and the patient’s medical history, it may be a one or two day outpatient procedure. Dilapan, laminaria, or medication is used to soften and dilate the cervix, and then the uterus is emptied. Some providers will use the vacuum aspiration procedure (used in surgical first trimester abortions) up to about 18-20 weeks. A Google search on second trimester abortion methods will give you more details.
Only about 1% of abortions are performed after 20 weeks in the U.S.
Third trimester abortions are almost always done because of severe fetal abnormality, or because the pregnancy endangers with woman’s health or life. They method will depend on the individual circumstances of the patient. A medical emergency involving the life of the mother, for instance, presents different issues than a healthy woman whose fetus will not survive birth, so differing techniques would be to terminate the pregnancy.
Thanks!
Guttmacher Institute will have the best data. There is also a research team at University of Colorado Boulder that is studying 2nd/3rd tri abortion care. The Nation published a piece about access to this kind of care about a month ago that mentioned the work they are doing and how there is a critical dearth of care past “viability.”
Thanks!
Good questions! I know there are some OBGYNs who post in the comments here and I bet they would probably be the ones who could direct us to some good resources. One can be staunchly pro-choice without having a perfect understanding, but the knowledge is power because it allows us to answer others' questions and to argue against all of the misinformation out there. And ultimately it deepens our commitment too.
I don't know of any resources but I think late abortions are pretty nebulous. Sometimes they're after twelve weeks sometimes twenty. "Late term abortion" is more of a legal term than a medical one. Google says a miscarriage becomes a stillbirth at twenty weeks. I think inducing labor is not the same as an abortion which would be at the point of viability around twenty four weeks. Inducing labor at any point before then would produce an infant unlikely to survive. In the case of fetal abnormalities, they'll induce labor but they'll first inject the uterus with a chemical to stop the fetus' heart. Misoprostol is a drug that causes contractions which is also prescribed for abortions, usually in combination with mifepristone that blocks the pregnancy hormone progesterone. That's all the info that I personally have but maybe someone else has more. There's a few OBGYNs on here so maybe they'll weigh in.
ACOG, the American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists, considers “late term abortion” to be a meaningless phrase that shouldn’t be used in medical or legal context.
Musk is so desperate to keep what right wing grifters he has left before Twitter finally implodes. He was left wing until he kept getting "cancelled" on Twitter and later bought the platform.
There are not too many people whose downfall I will relish more than Elon Musk's.
He also hates women.
He recently agreed with someone that people without children should not be able to vote. He is vile https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-children-voting-rights-b2369096.html
Well that is disguising.
I follow Kara Swisher to see what that fuck nut is up to.
I feel she is pretty level headed and I believe she has interviewed him
more than others.
If you google Elon Musk sexist there are several stories and stupid tweets he
has put out.
I am going to water my plants and get that shithead out of my head!
Not sure he hates women. Think it's more that he's just terrible with them in relationships. He has quite a few female execs.
I read this essay by his first wife a while back, and it confirmed my impression that Musk never left his "girls have cooties" phase of social development.. https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-ex-wife-essay-alpha-allegations-1708535
However, I think much of what we see as Misogyny from nMusk currently is just jockeying for status with other misogynist billionaires and doing their bidding. He is likely desperate for their investment, due to the fact that no rational (or ethical IMO) person will give him money now.
When I first saw that I read "exes"; ha! Idk enough to say but I do think he fits the profile. Being South African doesn't help his case. Hiring women could be that he sees them as useful subordinates to do his work for him. But I really don't know enough. It's more a suspicion that deep down all jerks are misogynists too.
There's a lot to criticize about Musk. But misogyny doesn't appear to be one of my criticisms. But we'll see how this anti-abortion stuff plays out. I might change my mind.
Not sure he hates women. Think it's more that he's just terrible with them in relationships. He has quite a few female execs.
He fears women because they see through his pseudo-intellectual posturings. Also, he is a self-centered, destructive, and petulant child.
That first sentence rings so so true for so many men. Evergreen.
"Like" seems so inadequate as a thank-you for such important and compelling information, Jessica. ...And I guess there's no getting around that it is time to leave Twitter....
it's so heartening to know that Tommy Tuberville would never under any circumstances consider having an abortion..
oh, wait...
I suggest blue state authorities respond to requests for abortion patients' records from GOP attorneys general with the poop emoji. 💩
Great idea! But i doubt they’d all be brave enough. Vanderbilt is a private, liberal-leaning, well-resourced university in TN, and their medical center apparently handed over transgender patients’ records to the AG without hesitating. (I guess he asked really nicely or something?) I know it’s not the same situation, but I would guess there are at least some clinic/hospital directors in blue states who’d be easily cowed or tricked into handing over abortion care records. This is why I think the federal rule is important