Can someone with clout please contact that female reporter in the PBS clip with Elissa Slotkin & ask her to never again let a politician get away with that remark about not wanting to allow abortions in the “last month or two?” !!!! Any & all reporters, journalists, should stop 🛑 right there & educate that person AND their audience, that there are never elective abortions happening that late in pregnancy!! It’s totally misinformation & is used to scare some people into believing if they vote for abortion initiatives, that sort of thing is what they are approving.
We have to stop letting them get away with telling that lie on national TV & not being challenged. Reporters let DJT get away with it all the time!! Just recently he spewed that same nonsense at a rally, even claiming that Democrats kill the baby after it’s born.
If Jessica or anyone reading my rant here knows the name of that reporter in the clip, let me know & I will be glad to email her about this.
It just enraged me that we are letting them spread that lie.
If you can stomach it, I recommend watching the linked video to the SC Republican congressional debate. (The question about abortion is about halfway through). The candidate who defends criminalizing women makes an important distinction. He says in an abortion there are 2 victims, the unborn child AND the pregnant woman. Implying the woman was coerced by a doctor to have the procedure, where the woman is the victim and the doctor is the perpetrator who needs tto be jailed. In the case when a woman performs an abortion on herself (self-manages with pills), she is no longer a victim but the perpretator who should be criminalized. He says his legislation closed that "loophole".
This relies heavily on the anti-abortion movement propaganda trope that there is an "abortion industry" that is preying on vulnerable women, coercing them to get abortions they don't want for their own profit. (Because there's so much money to be made from performing medical procedures that are not reimbursed by Medicaid or most private insurance).
There's no abortion industry, but there sure as hell is an adoption industry that charges upwards of $50,000 for White babies. Coincidentally, such babies are in short supply.
A NYT article this morning shows a poll in which 17% of voters blamed Biden for the fall of Roe & for state abortion bans because they are happening on his watch & they don’t think Trump is personally against abortion. Every time I read one of the articles with interviews, I am shocked by the depth of ignorance out there. Of course, it would help if the media actually reported on the issues instead of endless polls.
Did you also see the piece today on the 12 women who voted for TFG and what they think of him now? I stopped reading after 11/12 of them said a conviction in "the current trial" wouldn't matter to their vote. I think only one of them cared about reproductive rights.
It's like we are inhabitants of two different planets.
I saw it, but just couldn't make myself read it. The "12 voters...." moderated discussions are a regular feature in the NYT and they are usually terrifying and depressing. The things some of the people believe and say are just gob-smacking. It really is like they're from another planet.
The JAMA article about the safety of mail-order abortion pills (thanks for that link Jessica!) suggests that, now that mail-order pills are proven to be safe, there's a good chance primary care docs**will start to offer in office medical abortions** since they no longer have to stock the medication--which was a hassle leading to PCPs not offering medical abortions in their offices.
Although I am disgusted by the physician-centric description of this issue: "A mail-order dispensing model—in which patients have an in-person visit with the clinician and receive the medications by mail—has the potential to reduce barriers faced by clinicians and achieve patient preferences."
Uh, yeah: it's a "barrier" for the doc, but it's just a "patient preference" for the woman or girl facing an unwanted pregnancy.
“We want to be clear that this is about people, not politicians,” she says.
I get that strategy, but it IS about the politicians. The Republicans want to subjugate us. The Democrats do not.
I fear that ballot initiatives will allow conservative voters to vote for abortion access on the one hand while voting for their *politicians* on the other - politicians who will then turn around and try to either undo or water down their rights anyway.
So why hide the fact that Democrats are the party of reproductive freedom?
I get what Protect Our Rights is saying but don't they need to tell those voters look -- if you vote for the GOP you're voting to end autonomy over your body.
And in the same article, don't overlook this small addition to the litany of ways women and girls are made to suffer: the study participants had to be "willing to use misoprostol buccally as described in the labeling".
We know that vaginal use of misoprostol causes far less nausea and vomiting than buccal (in the mouth, inside cheek) use of the drug. Yet because abortion is an off label use of misoprostol, participants were not informed that vaginal administration would be easier. WOMEN MADE TO SUFFER
(People who self manage abortion in red states are advised to take miso buccally, so that they do not risk leaving evidence of the abortion in their vagina, but this study was conducted in states where abortion is legal, so no need for that recommendation). And PPS, there are some providers who think we should tell women in red states about vaginal administration. (To avoid unnecessary suffering!!), just advise them to do a finger-sweep of their vagina if they end up going to the hospital.
I read all of this while just watching Harrison Butkers commencement address. It is abundantly clear women are just a vessel to so many people. It is hard to fathom the words he said in 2024.
Again, we find ourselves up against the pregnancy dating issue. Is pregnancy dated from the time that a sperm cell merges with an ova or not? Since that is when the cell starts dividing and that this "fertilized" cell is the ancestor of all those cells that later becomes a blastocyst, then embryo, then fetus, then infant, reason suggests that this is when pregnancy begins.
Unless, for political and legal purposes you want to date it a little later, to when the blastocyst merges with the uterus. But then you are stuck with that period of time between fertilization and implantation. What do you call that? And what about gestation? When does gestation begin? If it doesn't begin immediately after fertilization, then when does it start and what do you call that period of time between fertilization and whenever that is supposed to begin?
It is entirely reasonable that people believe that pregnancy begins with conception. Perhaps the problem is the term "conception", which really a religious term, not medical. But of course conception as a religious term still has weight since "fertilization" is real biologically and foundational to sexual reproduction.
If you want to struggle with people's ignorance about pregnancy, better to start with gestational personhood, the notion that a woman's pregnancy has some medical, moral or legal status as a person, a child, a baby or anything that is not undergoing a difficult, complicated process of becoming something to be born.
Trump's "party of fertilization" can go to hell in a hand basket. As if we are just passive objects to be "fertilized" and then subjugated. Tracked and defined. Monitored and undone.
Made into walking dual-legal entities at whatever stage they want to define and "tweak" in the law at the moment, and depending on what idiot has garnered enough votes in his hometown to be sent to his state senate. And I say "his" because the majority of these statehouses making these horrid laws are filled with men.
The whole analysis is infuriating. We should be like Canada - no law on the matter at all.
I have to say, I find the irritation over Democrats' involvement in abortion rights deeply irritating.
"We want it to be as non-partisan as possible." So the rank and file Republican voters can keep living in their fantasy world where Republicans are the 'good' guys who have 'principles'? Pathetic. Republicans have MADE this a partisan, political issue, when it should be an issue about freedom. The party of 'small government' and 'fiscal conservatism' is dead. I know a lot of people who've actually come to terms with that and I really respect them.
All the state ballot measures in the world won't affect a federal ban and federal courts. Therefore, activists need the PEOPLE (Democrats) even more than they need these state amendments. If people are too reactionary to be able to tolerate someone they don't like supporting the same thing they do and change their beliefs based on that? I say again- pathetic.
More posts more better! I'm just so frustrated that Democrats get criticized to death no matter what they do, BECAUSE everyone knows they AREN'T tyrants. Republicans literally constructed a culture of fear and retribution for slights real and imagined. Interest groups know there won't be negative consequences from Democrats for being bitchy and illogical about a political problem requiring a political solution.
“We go high” mostly overshoots and means no one has any idea they did anything. Here we are in 2024 and most people have no idea what happened politically over the past four years.
They don’t know about the *Democrats* infrastructure plan, CHIPS, ACA changes, IRA, etc.
They do know about Gaza and college protests and immigration because that’s blaring on the tvs all the time.
I am not looking forward to SCOTUS gutting Chevron and EMTALA in June. And who knows about the immunity case. 🤮
AGREED. I read the Politico article and figured this debate would come up in AED.
I truly respect the important work of the teams behind the ballot measures, and can’t imagine what they would have to face from the anti-abortion’s campaigns against it. So I am open to hearing the insights from their boots-on-the-ground operation, but in the meantime, my thoughts are as follows:
What kind of rhetorical tightrope are they proposing Democrats walk in an era where MSM is constantly failing to present abortion rights accurately? With so much on the line, are we really going to cannibalize ourselves over these talking points? And as you pointed out, Victoria, Republicans have MADE this a partisan issue for decades. They are the party that is beholden to the anti-abortion lobby, not the voters, so they are going to keep passing bans, appointing anti-abortion judges, and all the normal shit they’ve been doing, no matter what the voters have said like Ohio, Kansas, and others.
The line about this “is about people not politics” sounds really noble, but ballot measures only work when you have a fucking legislature that is going to respect it instead of gut it before it can impact… PEOPLE!
I’m also concerned that trying to separate the ballot measure from the politics sets a dangerous precedent in a time where places like Arizona are putting ballot measures in that are named to sound like pro-abortion amendments and yet are anything but. Do you think Republicans are going to find themselves squabbling about “oh, don’t politicize the ballot measure because it’s bipartisan”? Fuck no, if SBA and R to L endorse those ballot measures you bet the politicians they pay are going to plug them non-stop and the voters who generally vote R will go right along with it because it’s been blessed by the right side. If you had a Democratic candidate speaking about the correct ballot measure and what it actually does, it might help shore up against the damage the fake ballot measures will do.
What a waste it would be to try to silence Dems who have a bigger platform to get this issue the airtime it deserves. What a waste of energy it is to critique talking points when the stakes are so fucking high.
Yes, exactly. I'm sick to *death* of 'politics' being a bad word. I'm sick of people who don't pay attention at ALL adopt a trendy cynicism, as if it's not just an excuse to be incredibly lazy and never figure out what the FUCK is going on. I honestly do my best to not mistake ignorance for stupidity, but it sure does seem like criminal negligence at this point to be like "I support Republicans and abortions rights, so I'm sure Republicans support abortion rights. Gonna go vote now!"
Also, notice how when Republicans take credit for stuff they voted against, they get next to no push back from their voters or their media? Meanwhile, when Democrats try to take credit or make their position clear on critical issues, it feels like a circular firing squad?
The Tennessee school video deal offers yet another opportunity to pour sand in the gears of the anti-abortion side. Don’t allow your kids to watch the video whether or not it matters to you. Force the school to deal with the problem by causing as much uproar over this as possible. Give them something else to have to keep track of - can this student watch it or not? Make as much trouble as you can, so they’re sorry they ever heard of anti-abortion videos.
i’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that an ob-gyn in my state, colorado, could be prosecuted in another state for performing a medical procedure that’s legal here. would that also mean the owner of a marijuana shop here could be prosecuted for selling pot in colorado to a resident of a state like, say, texas, where pot is illegal? how do they get jurisdiction across state lines? but i fear that with this corrupt supreme court, anything is possible.
I can't imagine that they will ever get away with telling (adult, at least) women they can't travel and get an abortion in a state in which it is legal. That would be so outrageous. It would be imprisoning women inside state borders. It would be like the leadup to the Civil War. But wait, the GOP doesn't believe slavery was the real cause of the Civil War. They think it was state's rights and "economics."
"Hey neighbor, your debts are paid because you don't pay for labor..."
This is exactly our problem with freaking guns (the literal anti-life implements), but they even want to have it both ways with people buying guns out of state, but no abortions. It's like Gov. Abbott about IVF's inconsistency with abortion bans, "No one ever considered this problem before." Because real liberals just don't exist to these people, we're just caricatures filtered through the right wing media ecosystem.
After Dobbs, with a "heartbeat" bill in effect here in Ga, I made sure to include embryonic development as the last unit in my A&P class. Everyone needs to know more about how embryonic and fetal development takes place, especially because Rs lie about it all the time.
Can someone with clout please contact that female reporter in the PBS clip with Elissa Slotkin & ask her to never again let a politician get away with that remark about not wanting to allow abortions in the “last month or two?” !!!! Any & all reporters, journalists, should stop 🛑 right there & educate that person AND their audience, that there are never elective abortions happening that late in pregnancy!! It’s totally misinformation & is used to scare some people into believing if they vote for abortion initiatives, that sort of thing is what they are approving.
We have to stop letting them get away with telling that lie on national TV & not being challenged. Reporters let DJT get away with it all the time!! Just recently he spewed that same nonsense at a rally, even claiming that Democrats kill the baby after it’s born.
If Jessica or anyone reading my rant here knows the name of that reporter in the clip, let me know & I will be glad to email her about this.
It just enraged me that we are letting them spread that lie.
If you can stomach it, I recommend watching the linked video to the SC Republican congressional debate. (The question about abortion is about halfway through). The candidate who defends criminalizing women makes an important distinction. He says in an abortion there are 2 victims, the unborn child AND the pregnant woman. Implying the woman was coerced by a doctor to have the procedure, where the woman is the victim and the doctor is the perpetrator who needs tto be jailed. In the case when a woman performs an abortion on herself (self-manages with pills), she is no longer a victim but the perpretator who should be criminalized. He says his legislation closed that "loophole".
This relies heavily on the anti-abortion movement propaganda trope that there is an "abortion industry" that is preying on vulnerable women, coercing them to get abortions they don't want for their own profit. (Because there's so much money to be made from performing medical procedures that are not reimbursed by Medicaid or most private insurance).
There's no abortion industry, but there sure as hell is an adoption industry that charges upwards of $50,000 for White babies. Coincidentally, such babies are in short supply.
A NYT article this morning shows a poll in which 17% of voters blamed Biden for the fall of Roe & for state abortion bans because they are happening on his watch & they don’t think Trump is personally against abortion. Every time I read one of the articles with interviews, I am shocked by the depth of ignorance out there. Of course, it would help if the media actually reported on the issues instead of endless polls.
Did you also see the piece today on the 12 women who voted for TFG and what they think of him now? I stopped reading after 11/12 of them said a conviction in "the current trial" wouldn't matter to their vote. I think only one of them cared about reproductive rights.
It's like we are inhabitants of two different planets.
I saw it, but just couldn't make myself read it. The "12 voters...." moderated discussions are a regular feature in the NYT and they are usually terrifying and depressing. The things some of the people believe and say are just gob-smacking. It really is like they're from another planet.
The JAMA article about the safety of mail-order abortion pills (thanks for that link Jessica!) suggests that, now that mail-order pills are proven to be safe, there's a good chance primary care docs**will start to offer in office medical abortions** since they no longer have to stock the medication--which was a hassle leading to PCPs not offering medical abortions in their offices.
Although I am disgusted by the physician-centric description of this issue: "A mail-order dispensing model—in which patients have an in-person visit with the clinician and receive the medications by mail—has the potential to reduce barriers faced by clinicians and achieve patient preferences."
Uh, yeah: it's a "barrier" for the doc, but it's just a "patient preference" for the woman or girl facing an unwanted pregnancy.
Elissa Slotkin is very smart to tie reproductive rights to economics. They are inseparable. It IS a kitchen table issue and more.
I also really want to hear someone for the love just say something like “jailing women and doctors will not make your groceries cheaper.”
“We want to be clear that this is about people, not politicians,” she says.
I get that strategy, but it IS about the politicians. The Republicans want to subjugate us. The Democrats do not.
I fear that ballot initiatives will allow conservative voters to vote for abortion access on the one hand while voting for their *politicians* on the other - politicians who will then turn around and try to either undo or water down their rights anyway.
So why hide the fact that Democrats are the party of reproductive freedom?
I get what Protect Our Rights is saying but don't they need to tell those voters look -- if you vote for the GOP you're voting to end autonomy over your body.
One minor edit to you otherwise great comment: not "the Republicans WANT to subjugate" us but rather "the Republicans ARE subjugating us"
Ack, I placed a posting in the wrong thread, cannot move it-apologies for confusion.
And in the same article, don't overlook this small addition to the litany of ways women and girls are made to suffer: the study participants had to be "willing to use misoprostol buccally as described in the labeling".
We know that vaginal use of misoprostol causes far less nausea and vomiting than buccal (in the mouth, inside cheek) use of the drug. Yet because abortion is an off label use of misoprostol, participants were not informed that vaginal administration would be easier. WOMEN MADE TO SUFFER
(People who self manage abortion in red states are advised to take miso buccally, so that they do not risk leaving evidence of the abortion in their vagina, but this study was conducted in states where abortion is legal, so no need for that recommendation). And PPS, there are some providers who think we should tell women in red states about vaginal administration. (To avoid unnecessary suffering!!), just advise them to do a finger-sweep of their vagina if they end up going to the hospital.
I read all of this while just watching Harrison Butkers commencement address. It is abundantly clear women are just a vessel to so many people. It is hard to fathom the words he said in 2024.
Again, we find ourselves up against the pregnancy dating issue. Is pregnancy dated from the time that a sperm cell merges with an ova or not? Since that is when the cell starts dividing and that this "fertilized" cell is the ancestor of all those cells that later becomes a blastocyst, then embryo, then fetus, then infant, reason suggests that this is when pregnancy begins.
Unless, for political and legal purposes you want to date it a little later, to when the blastocyst merges with the uterus. But then you are stuck with that period of time between fertilization and implantation. What do you call that? And what about gestation? When does gestation begin? If it doesn't begin immediately after fertilization, then when does it start and what do you call that period of time between fertilization and whenever that is supposed to begin?
It is entirely reasonable that people believe that pregnancy begins with conception. Perhaps the problem is the term "conception", which really a religious term, not medical. But of course conception as a religious term still has weight since "fertilization" is real biologically and foundational to sexual reproduction.
If you want to struggle with people's ignorance about pregnancy, better to start with gestational personhood, the notion that a woman's pregnancy has some medical, moral or legal status as a person, a child, a baby or anything that is not undergoing a difficult, complicated process of becoming something to be born.
Trump's "party of fertilization" can go to hell in a hand basket. As if we are just passive objects to be "fertilized" and then subjugated. Tracked and defined. Monitored and undone.
Made into walking dual-legal entities at whatever stage they want to define and "tweak" in the law at the moment, and depending on what idiot has garnered enough votes in his hometown to be sent to his state senate. And I say "his" because the majority of these statehouses making these horrid laws are filled with men.
The whole analysis is infuriating. We should be like Canada - no law on the matter at all.
I have to say, I find the irritation over Democrats' involvement in abortion rights deeply irritating.
"We want it to be as non-partisan as possible." So the rank and file Republican voters can keep living in their fantasy world where Republicans are the 'good' guys who have 'principles'? Pathetic. Republicans have MADE this a partisan, political issue, when it should be an issue about freedom. The party of 'small government' and 'fiscal conservatism' is dead. I know a lot of people who've actually come to terms with that and I really respect them.
All the state ballot measures in the world won't affect a federal ban and federal courts. Therefore, activists need the PEOPLE (Democrats) even more than they need these state amendments. If people are too reactionary to be able to tolerate someone they don't like supporting the same thing they do and change their beliefs based on that? I say again- pathetic.
I should have read your post before posting mine.
Agree 100 % !
More posts more better! I'm just so frustrated that Democrats get criticized to death no matter what they do, BECAUSE everyone knows they AREN'T tyrants. Republicans literally constructed a culture of fear and retribution for slights real and imagined. Interest groups know there won't be negative consequences from Democrats for being bitchy and illogical about a political problem requiring a political solution.
“We go high” mostly overshoots and means no one has any idea they did anything. Here we are in 2024 and most people have no idea what happened politically over the past four years.
They don’t know about the *Democrats* infrastructure plan, CHIPS, ACA changes, IRA, etc.
They do know about Gaza and college protests and immigration because that’s blaring on the tvs all the time.
I am not looking forward to SCOTUS gutting Chevron and EMTALA in June. And who knows about the immunity case. 🤮
Ughhh, Chevron. I'm so not ready to go back to the Jungle.
AGREED. I read the Politico article and figured this debate would come up in AED.
I truly respect the important work of the teams behind the ballot measures, and can’t imagine what they would have to face from the anti-abortion’s campaigns against it. So I am open to hearing the insights from their boots-on-the-ground operation, but in the meantime, my thoughts are as follows:
What kind of rhetorical tightrope are they proposing Democrats walk in an era where MSM is constantly failing to present abortion rights accurately? With so much on the line, are we really going to cannibalize ourselves over these talking points? And as you pointed out, Victoria, Republicans have MADE this a partisan issue for decades. They are the party that is beholden to the anti-abortion lobby, not the voters, so they are going to keep passing bans, appointing anti-abortion judges, and all the normal shit they’ve been doing, no matter what the voters have said like Ohio, Kansas, and others.
The line about this “is about people not politics” sounds really noble, but ballot measures only work when you have a fucking legislature that is going to respect it instead of gut it before it can impact… PEOPLE!
I’m also concerned that trying to separate the ballot measure from the politics sets a dangerous precedent in a time where places like Arizona are putting ballot measures in that are named to sound like pro-abortion amendments and yet are anything but. Do you think Republicans are going to find themselves squabbling about “oh, don’t politicize the ballot measure because it’s bipartisan”? Fuck no, if SBA and R to L endorse those ballot measures you bet the politicians they pay are going to plug them non-stop and the voters who generally vote R will go right along with it because it’s been blessed by the right side. If you had a Democratic candidate speaking about the correct ballot measure and what it actually does, it might help shore up against the damage the fake ballot measures will do.
What a waste it would be to try to silence Dems who have a bigger platform to get this issue the airtime it deserves. What a waste of energy it is to critique talking points when the stakes are so fucking high.
Yes, exactly. I'm sick to *death* of 'politics' being a bad word. I'm sick of people who don't pay attention at ALL adopt a trendy cynicism, as if it's not just an excuse to be incredibly lazy and never figure out what the FUCK is going on. I honestly do my best to not mistake ignorance for stupidity, but it sure does seem like criminal negligence at this point to be like "I support Republicans and abortions rights, so I'm sure Republicans support abortion rights. Gonna go vote now!"
Also, notice how when Republicans take credit for stuff they voted against, they get next to no push back from their voters or their media? Meanwhile, when Democrats try to take credit or make their position clear on critical issues, it feels like a circular firing squad?
The Tennessee school video deal offers yet another opportunity to pour sand in the gears of the anti-abortion side. Don’t allow your kids to watch the video whether or not it matters to you. Force the school to deal with the problem by causing as much uproar over this as possible. Give them something else to have to keep track of - can this student watch it or not? Make as much trouble as you can, so they’re sorry they ever heard of anti-abortion videos.
i’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that an ob-gyn in my state, colorado, could be prosecuted in another state for performing a medical procedure that’s legal here. would that also mean the owner of a marijuana shop here could be prosecuted for selling pot in colorado to a resident of a state like, say, texas, where pot is illegal? how do they get jurisdiction across state lines? but i fear that with this corrupt supreme court, anything is possible.
I can't imagine that they will ever get away with telling (adult, at least) women they can't travel and get an abortion in a state in which it is legal. That would be so outrageous. It would be imprisoning women inside state borders. It would be like the leadup to the Civil War. But wait, the GOP doesn't believe slavery was the real cause of the Civil War. They think it was state's rights and "economics."
"Hey neighbor, your debts are paid because you don't pay for labor..."
This is exactly our problem with freaking guns (the literal anti-life implements), but they even want to have it both ways with people buying guns out of state, but no abortions. It's like Gov. Abbott about IVF's inconsistency with abortion bans, "No one ever considered this problem before." Because real liberals just don't exist to these people, we're just caricatures filtered through the right wing media ecosystem.
The link for the Kentucky religious freedom lawsuit actually goes to an article about Louisiana.
After Dobbs, with a "heartbeat" bill in effect here in Ga, I made sure to include embryonic development as the last unit in my A&P class. Everyone needs to know more about how embryonic and fetal development takes place, especially because Rs lie about it all the time.
What is an A&P class? Last I heard it was a term from aircraft maintenance.
Anatomy and Physiology. I teach human A&P to aspiring nursing students.
LOL. Also known as Airframe and Powerplant in other circles. Very similar actually, I guess, different kind of machine.
Yes, you have to have heart valves, to have a heartbeat. At six weeks those simply don't exist.