Nikki Fried says Florida is gerrymandered. But we know that can't possibly be right, because Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment to ban gerrymandering years ago, and obviously the Republicans who run the state have to obey its constitution..... 🤨🤨 🤔🤔🤔
When our fascist governor passed the maps that he gerrymandered (within an inch of it's life) his own party said they were illegal and would never fly! Two judges immediately recused from the hearing on them, and only one pursued a challenge to them.
From the Jezebel piece on Mace: "The rest of the conversation descends into indiscernible nonsense from Mace, who pivots to framing Democrats as the ones who are harmful to pregnant rape victims because of their supposedly lax-on-crime stances that will ostensibly let rapists run free. "
Don't know where to start.... If subjugating women by making them into baby birthing vessels with no ability to access abortion care isn't promoting a culture of violence against them -- state-sanctioned crimes of rape and incest, really --I don't know what is.
I don't hear any of these supposed "moderate" GOP women like her or Haley (they're not moderate) speaking out about the extreme dystopian horror shows happening in red states right now. All Haley said at the debate was something like " let's not lie to the American people that we can pass a national ban when we don't have the votes." That's not moderate. That's lying in wait until you have the votes.
Mace is no better.
And she voted to oust McCarthy today. She is extreme rightwing.
Ironically she claimed it was because he had repeatedly promised her things related to "women's issues" which he never followed through on. But yeah if Nancy Mace and Nikki Haley are supposed to be women's allies, who needs enemies.
"I had been fighting for women's rights since before I ever came to Congress. And when Roe v. Wade was overturned, I continued that fight and I've made deals with Kevin McCarthy, with the speaker, that he has not kept to help women in this country," Mace told reporters https://americanindependent.com/nancy-mace-south-carolina-abortion-pivot/
She does have a history of acting like she doesn't understand who the Republican party really are though. So either that's a ploy or she really is clueless. I guess that's a thing for Republican women, playing dumb?
Yes. My understanding was the district is safer for Republicans under the new maps (although those maps are being challenged), but I defer to your judgement as you're in the area.
Instead of fighting the concept of late-term abortions, it may be better to acknowledge it but define it as abortions that occur after fetal viability. There is some rationale to limiting abortions at this stage, and requiring some good reasons for it having to do with fetal abnormality or the woman's health.
One more pt. I do agree that we need better messaging and education and pre-Dobbs we have not been doing great in that area. I guess the things that helps me through reality that is (1) the majority are still with us (2) the people that have mobilized since Dobbs and the amazing things they are doing.
That said, we need medical orgs like ACOG and the AMA and prochoice orgs like Planned Parenthood and any politicians who claim to be prochoice to go out there and help move from defensive avoidant messaging to offensive educational messaging. You know, what *should* have happened sometime after Roe and is part of the reason we got here.
Have the fight. Our ideas are better. Persuade. Inoculate against the dumb and bad faith arguments.
Topics could include:
-Abortion “Exceptions” are Fake Fake Fake
-Why is abortion is awesome and good for America (or wherever you live)
-Crisis Pregnancy Centers are Forced Bible Study. Don’t fund that nonsense!
-Heartbeat bills are nonsense. Here’s a 10 week algae growth to prove it.
-Pregnant *people* includes more than women, duh.
-Foster and adoptions aren’t good options.
-What they’ll do next. Here’s how antiabortionists are coming for you and your freedoms.
We really need to educate people on what they call "late term abortions". No one waits purposely to have a later term abortion. It is much more difficult to obtain, as there are so few OB/GYNs that perform them. It is also much more difficult of a surgery and involves surgical intervention and is very costly like 10,000 dollars and up. These are wanted pregnancies who have fatal fetal anomalies. It is ghoulish to add to their pain.
Disagree bc at that stage *there are already limits* so we don’t need to add more -- especially not the government. Meds don’t work so you need a doctor and surgery. There are fewer places that offer this and a million hurdles. We don’t need more hurdles to help pregnant people get medical care.
Agree to meet the issue head-on. I like this source.
From Parents Magazine:
"There's No Such Thing as 'Late-Term Abortion'—Here Are the Facts
When Most Abortions Occur
The large majority of abortions occur during the first trimester of pregnancy. According to statistics by Pew Research, in 2019, 93% of abortions occurred before 13 weeks gestation.
Outside of the first trimester, abortions across 42 states and New York City that were reviewed occurred between 14 and 20 weeks (6%) and 1% happened at 21 weeks or later in gestation.
Second and Third Trimester Abortions
While most abortions occur before 13 weeks, second or third trimester abortions are also options pregnant people may have. These are the most common reasons an abortion may occur during the second or third trimester: fetal anomalies, Pregnancy complications
Our experience dealing with these people, though, shows that they'll take even the smallest concession and run with it all the way to their extremes. There is only disadvantage in accepting any of this framing; it's a trap. The burden needs to be on them to demonstrate why a health care procedure should be illegal, rather than on us to defend it, and that's the fundamental problem. The best way to handle it is probably to throw the question back at them. Instead of getting into a discussion about weeks, ask them specifically whose abortion they want to ban and then be ready with stories of individual women's pregnancies. Our horror stories are all real and theirs are all imaginary.
I disagree. Viability is determined by many factors, and time may be a factor but is not a determinant of viability. There is no rationale for limiting abortions at ANY stage. I think we should fight the concept of banning abortion at any point. Late term, early term--it's the choice of the person with the fetus, not a decision made by anyone with a calendar.
That's just it. Abortions after the time of 'viability' are performed precisely because the fetus is not viable. There may be rare exceptions when there's another reason, but they should be forced to identify an actual real abortion they think should be illegal, rather than us arguing against straw men.
“(At this point, I think I may have to start a glossary of fake anti-abortion terms because there are so many.)”
Jessica, if you don’t do it then someone should. Maybe we need a Language Epidemiologist so we can track who is spreading this language virus and it’s variants.
From that propublica article about Idaho's lack of support for mothers and children after they banned abortion.
"But those [crisis pregnancy] centers are where Conzatti said people who have unplanned pregnancies should now look to for help. They embody his vision of a world before legalized abortion and before Medicaid got involved in the lives of poor families."
I want to college with Katie Blair. we performed in the Vagina Monologues together. she is absolutely amazing and she is always fighting the good fight 🩵.
Nikki Fried says Florida is gerrymandered. But we know that can't possibly be right, because Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment to ban gerrymandering years ago, and obviously the Republicans who run the state have to obey its constitution..... 🤨🤨 🤔🤔🤔
When our fascist governor passed the maps that he gerrymandered (within an inch of it's life) his own party said they were illegal and would never fly! Two judges immediately recused from the hearing on them, and only one pursued a challenge to them.
From the Jezebel piece on Mace: "The rest of the conversation descends into indiscernible nonsense from Mace, who pivots to framing Democrats as the ones who are harmful to pregnant rape victims because of their supposedly lax-on-crime stances that will ostensibly let rapists run free. "
https://jezebel.com/nancy-mace-s-moderate-abortion-stance-crumbled-under-1850895762
Don't know where to start.... If subjugating women by making them into baby birthing vessels with no ability to access abortion care isn't promoting a culture of violence against them -- state-sanctioned crimes of rape and incest, really --I don't know what is.
Doesn't Idaho have a rapists bill of rights?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/03/idaho-abortion-bill-rapist-families
I don't hear any of these supposed "moderate" GOP women like her or Haley (they're not moderate) speaking out about the extreme dystopian horror shows happening in red states right now. All Haley said at the debate was something like " let's not lie to the American people that we can pass a national ban when we don't have the votes." That's not moderate. That's lying in wait until you have the votes.
Mace is no better.
And she voted to oust McCarthy today. She is extreme rightwing.
Ironically she claimed it was because he had repeatedly promised her things related to "women's issues" which he never followed through on. But yeah if Nancy Mace and Nikki Haley are supposed to be women's allies, who needs enemies.
"I had been fighting for women's rights since before I ever came to Congress. And when Roe v. Wade was overturned, I continued that fight and I've made deals with Kevin McCarthy, with the speaker, that he has not kept to help women in this country," Mace told reporters https://americanindependent.com/nancy-mace-south-carolina-abortion-pivot/
If I don't laugh, I'll cry!
She does have a history of acting like she doesn't understand who the Republican party really are though. So either that's a ploy or she really is clueless. I guess that's a thing for Republican women, playing dumb?
She represents a very purple district in SC. She ousted a Democrat in 2020 (he was a one-termer) and won again in 2022.
Yes. My understanding was the district is safer for Republicans under the new maps (although those maps are being challenged), but I defer to your judgement as you're in the area.
Instead of fighting the concept of late-term abortions, it may be better to acknowledge it but define it as abortions that occur after fetal viability. There is some rationale to limiting abortions at this stage, and requiring some good reasons for it having to do with fetal abnormality or the woman's health.
One more pt. I do agree that we need better messaging and education and pre-Dobbs we have not been doing great in that area. I guess the things that helps me through reality that is (1) the majority are still with us (2) the people that have mobilized since Dobbs and the amazing things they are doing.
That said, we need medical orgs like ACOG and the AMA and prochoice orgs like Planned Parenthood and any politicians who claim to be prochoice to go out there and help move from defensive avoidant messaging to offensive educational messaging. You know, what *should* have happened sometime after Roe and is part of the reason we got here.
Have the fight. Our ideas are better. Persuade. Inoculate against the dumb and bad faith arguments.
Topics could include:
-Abortion “Exceptions” are Fake Fake Fake
-Why is abortion is awesome and good for America (or wherever you live)
-Crisis Pregnancy Centers are Forced Bible Study. Don’t fund that nonsense!
-Heartbeat bills are nonsense. Here’s a 10 week algae growth to prove it.
-Pregnant *people* includes more than women, duh.
-Foster and adoptions aren’t good options.
-What they’ll do next. Here’s how antiabortionists are coming for you and your freedoms.
We really need to educate people on what they call "late term abortions". No one waits purposely to have a later term abortion. It is much more difficult to obtain, as there are so few OB/GYNs that perform them. It is also much more difficult of a surgery and involves surgical intervention and is very costly like 10,000 dollars and up. These are wanted pregnancies who have fatal fetal anomalies. It is ghoulish to add to their pain.
Disagree bc at that stage *there are already limits* so we don’t need to add more -- especially not the government. Meds don’t work so you need a doctor and surgery. There are fewer places that offer this and a million hurdles. We don’t need more hurdles to help pregnant people get medical care.
Agree to meet the issue head-on. I like this source.
From Parents Magazine:
"There's No Such Thing as 'Late-Term Abortion'—Here Are the Facts
When Most Abortions Occur
The large majority of abortions occur during the first trimester of pregnancy. According to statistics by Pew Research, in 2019, 93% of abortions occurred before 13 weeks gestation.
Outside of the first trimester, abortions across 42 states and New York City that were reviewed occurred between 14 and 20 weeks (6%) and 1% happened at 21 weeks or later in gestation.
Second and Third Trimester Abortions
While most abortions occur before 13 weeks, second or third trimester abortions are also options pregnant people may have. These are the most common reasons an abortion may occur during the second or third trimester: fetal anomalies, Pregnancy complications
Less access to care,
https://www.parents.com/pregnancy/my-body/pregnancy-health/theres-no-such-thing-as-late-term-abortion-here-are-the-facts/
Our experience dealing with these people, though, shows that they'll take even the smallest concession and run with it all the way to their extremes. There is only disadvantage in accepting any of this framing; it's a trap. The burden needs to be on them to demonstrate why a health care procedure should be illegal, rather than on us to defend it, and that's the fundamental problem. The best way to handle it is probably to throw the question back at them. Instead of getting into a discussion about weeks, ask them specifically whose abortion they want to ban and then be ready with stories of individual women's pregnancies. Our horror stories are all real and theirs are all imaginary.
💯
I disagree. Viability is determined by many factors, and time may be a factor but is not a determinant of viability. There is no rationale for limiting abortions at ANY stage. I think we should fight the concept of banning abortion at any point. Late term, early term--it's the choice of the person with the fetus, not a decision made by anyone with a calendar.
That's just it. Abortions after the time of 'viability' are performed precisely because the fetus is not viable. There may be rare exceptions when there's another reason, but they should be forced to identify an actual real abortion they think should be illegal, rather than us arguing against straw men.
“(At this point, I think I may have to start a glossary of fake anti-abortion terms because there are so many.)”
Jessica, if you don’t do it then someone should. Maybe we need a Language Epidemiologist so we can track who is spreading this language virus and it’s variants.
From that propublica article about Idaho's lack of support for mothers and children after they banned abortion.
"But those [crisis pregnancy] centers are where Conzatti said people who have unplanned pregnancies should now look to for help. They embody his vision of a world before legalized abortion and before Medicaid got involved in the lives of poor families."
How dystopic.
I want to college with Katie Blair. we performed in the Vagina Monologues together. she is absolutely amazing and she is always fighting the good fight 🩵.