Jessica you mentioned you would include a link to Adriana Smith’s Go Fund Me page. I didn’t see it. I will try searching for it on line. Always concerned I’m getting a legitimate link.
Thank you Jessica for the opportunity to listen to you and Pregnancy Justice. Very informative and helpful. Also, appreciate your willingness to share your pregnancy story and what is was like for you to navigate through that trying time.
Jessica, please the next time you do a livestream, ask the audience if they can hear your guest. This is such an important discussion & if your guest could have been told to please get closer to her microphone. Not being able to hear her well was so distracting.
There are law firms that take cases like Adriana Smith's. I think the family needs to sue the hospital, the Physicians Group, and the state. I think this case needs to go all the way to the Supreme Court.
Oh boy I really hope SNL does a sketch about this, but make it like someone from today time travels & they call 911 & the operator is like this is for emergencies only. Are you in discomfort? Distress? Feeling ill? No just had a big blood clot. Just letting you know. 911 operator hangs up on them.
This is so absurd (not to mention a waste of time) seeing it in black & white like that. Just what the all-encompassing fuck is going on?
This was so informative and thank you both. The details of Adriana Smith’s hand bones crumbling when her family just tried holding her hand and her husband saying she now has the smell of decomposing is so heartbreaking to hear. I so agree this is bs that it is just about “the best interest of a child.” And we need politicians unafraid to name what is happening and how these “abolitionists” are monsters. It seems to me it is easy to frame the “pro-life” falsely as the “heroes” because they are supposedly “saving” these unborn babies so many pro-choice people back off or back down on things like viability lines.
I am sorry to admit when I was in college I went to some event to write about it for a class called “feminists against abortions” or something like that. They knew what they were doing and played emotional games with vulnerable students. This was like 1998 so details are fuzzy but they had me recalling how my mother had abortions before me and toyed with my personal feelings about that and my birth even though my biological dad didn’t want me so I (too!) could have been aborted. They then pivoted to how “as feminists” we should be conflicted supporting a system where women were having these traumatic abortions that would 1) harm the women more than having the baby (!!!) and 2) “let men” know they could leave it to the women and the possibility of abortions versus being responsible men, assuming now they were against all contraceptives as well but they smartly avoided that topic. Sadly my mind at 18 was conflicted that night but obviously after thinking more about it I saw the bs but I can see how they use those same arguments to convince young Christian women that they are the “heroes” for women as well as “babies” even though without the repetitive brainwashing of these conservative political messages and church leaders they might see the truth. I think more and more we just need Democrat politicians realizing they are the heroes and having that courage of conviction that you women have.
I have posted in these comments before about how my mother died a very horrifying death from sepsis after some unknown infection sent her body into organ failure and what kind of “moral hero” pushes for all women to live under the threat of carrying around dead fetal tissue that can cause sepsis until some arbitrary time set by politicians? Seeing my mom suffer and moaning in torturous pain even in an induced coma state on morphine, etc as her body turned against itself and then after the heartbreaking decisions to do the central line, to try dialysis and then when only the machines kept her going to decide to remove those machines and then still wait over 24 hours for her to be free of her pain-ravaged body. Her chest was still heaving and her lungs so loudly gasping for every breath even though the ventilator was no longer forcing breath. Anyone who has been in a hospital on the “death watch” where you are just waiting and praying for the line to go flat on the screen and when they finally pass on there is such relief because it was inevitable and now you can finally begin to grieve. Have those people imagine what it would be like to have that person kept alive and even breaking and decomposing before your eyes.. all because inside their rotting body is a fetus some strangers think needs the chance to be born into its own death.
That is awful. I'm so sorry for you having gone through that experience. B/C as the commenter above stated, we're just "containers" Thanks @Madeleine Bolger. Ha, used it already.
Imagine? They just don't care. They're seeing it happen in real life & in real time & it's repulsive, disgusting, medieval, reprehensible, unparalleled cruelty. There is no equivalent human cruelty like that perpetrated against women in modern society.
Thank you Layla. To be clear my mom was in her early 60s and not pregnancy related but sepsis can happen so fast and furious and once it starts if immediate care… even with immediate care it is often horrendously fatal. So I think these detached non-total heartless bastards are just imagining these women are just carrying around something as non-threatening as periods. Not dead infectious tissue ticking death bombs. The worst of them would say no matter what we are just “containers” anyhow, so I would hope we are reaching the rest or the constituents that give them power. And saying we are exaggerating about women and girls facing death and doctors being limited in care for them… I just think we need to keep telling the real stories and not feeling the need to be polite about it.
Yes, I got it. You're welcome. Yeah, there was one MAGA/GOP woman who'd said something in response to women dying that she didn't know. OK, well, even if that were true before, she knows now. She, and the rest of them, need to act accordingly. "When you know better, you do better" That's what Maya Angelou says. But, these incredibly heartless fearless leaders don't want anyone to know anything about what is going on so they will be unable to do better.
They don't understand how lady parts work. They don't understand how infections work. Because, spoiler alert, they're not medical professionals. They're a bunch of priveleged dudes who have no clue and want us all to bow down or suffer. If I weren't disabled I'd be gone so fast. I actually researched how to relocate to Canada back during Trump's 1st turn at bat. I was doing some freelance work part-time back then, thought I'd be able to finagle something if things got worse. Then I got worse. So, I'm stuck here in a country where most of my fellow Americans despise me enough to want to go back to the 1950s b/c it was so great (but only if you were a white man). They want the world to be like Mad Men. They see that as glamorous. Sorry, I went off on a tangent. I really need to unplug & go get something done.
Lol yeah I get so riled up and comments longer and longer these days because you guys are the ones who make me feel sane and safe and heard.
(btw so funny you mention Mad Men which I am a fan of even through a lot of cringe.. showed Don Draper ended up a suicidal alcoholic because his 2.5 kids and blonde passive wife and picket fence did not fill the void in him after all. His boss lost most of his fortune and most of his health chasing younger and younger women until he finally found a woman (from Canada!) who was his age, his peer and equal.)
After season 1 I had to take a break for a long while b/c I wasn't prepared for how realisitic & gritty it'd be. I thought it was going to be glamorous 50s ad agency w/drama, fun, & good times. It was so much more than that. Like WTAF?!
Ditto on feeling more sane, safe, & heard w/people like you. it's good to know that some people are capable of rational, reasonable, compassionate discourse.
Ugh, West Virginia is the beginning of the Jesus billboards states - sick. How about we have some of these pastors call the police to report each time they abuse a child or know about the abuse of a child within their congregations.
Tom Truman* didn't just come up with this out of thin air. All the reports miss the fact that this idea to prosecute women apparently stemmed from a case in May in which police arrested and charged a man named Daniel Lee Agnew for displacement and disinterment of a body after he allegedly "threw out" and "ran over" with his ATV the remains of his ex-girlfriend's fetus which she had purposely preserved. This after other allegations of domestic violence. For example, "according to the complaint, on May 10, a separate incident was reported where the victim and Agnew were reportedly driving in an ATV when he allegedly flipped the vehicle on purpose after becoming angry."
I point this out, because after all of that documented abuse carried about by a MAN towards a woman and a fetus, Tom Thurman's takeaway was that women must be punished for miscarriages. Not that the woman in this case was genuinely bereaved and didn't know how else to grieve her loss. But that somehow it was probably the woman's fault that she had a miscarriage, and not the man's fault that he was angry so he threw out and then repeatedly ran over her dead fetus.
Absolute moron. What a waste of resources to tie up emergency services to report something like this. Think of how many actual emergencies will have delayed responses.
Yep, especially since they're pretending to be medical professionals by interfering in medical professionals' actual business. They're so infuriating. They don't know what they're talking about. Or some of them actually do & deliberately repeat lies, misinformation, & misconstrue information anyway.
Jessica you mentioned you would include a link to Adriana Smith’s Go Fund Me page. I didn’t see it. I will try searching for it on line. Always concerned I’m getting a legitimate link.
Thank you Jessica for the opportunity to listen to you and Pregnancy Justice. Very informative and helpful. Also, appreciate your willingness to share your pregnancy story and what is was like for you to navigate through that trying time.
Love your spirit and advocacy 🥰
Jessica, please the next time you do a livestream, ask the audience if they can hear your guest. This is such an important discussion & if your guest could have been told to please get closer to her microphone. Not being able to hear her well was so distracting.
Is anyone giving "Dobbs" any feedback? I think he needs to hear from all of us.
There are law firms that take cases like Adriana Smith's. I think the family needs to sue the hospital, the Physicians Group, and the state. I think this case needs to go all the way to the Supreme Court.
MY BODY. MY CHOICE. NO COMPROMISE!
MY BODY! MY CHOICE! NO COMPROMISE!!!
Oh boy I really hope SNL does a sketch about this, but make it like someone from today time travels & they call 911 & the operator is like this is for emergencies only. Are you in discomfort? Distress? Feeling ill? No just had a big blood clot. Just letting you know. 911 operator hangs up on them.
This is so absurd (not to mention a waste of time) seeing it in black & white like that. Just what the all-encompassing fuck is going on?
Excellent interview-I learned so much from Karen Johnson and the work they do for Pregnancy Justice.
I attended a presentation on “Life before Roe” some years ago. I immediately noticed that the audience was full of anti abortion folks.
They did not disappoint. They harassed and heckled the speakers, spouted their usual nonsense about responsibility, etc.
The thing that was crystal clear was that they, men and women alike, viewed a pregnant woman as a container.
They had/have no concern for her as a person. In becoming a container, all her “personhood” goes away.
It made me furious. I have felt since the time I faced this choice: I am NOT a container.
How dare they?
Container. That's a good one. I hope you don't mind if I use that at some point. I'll credit you, of course.
With my blessing.
This was so informative and thank you both. The details of Adriana Smith’s hand bones crumbling when her family just tried holding her hand and her husband saying she now has the smell of decomposing is so heartbreaking to hear. I so agree this is bs that it is just about “the best interest of a child.” And we need politicians unafraid to name what is happening and how these “abolitionists” are monsters. It seems to me it is easy to frame the “pro-life” falsely as the “heroes” because they are supposedly “saving” these unborn babies so many pro-choice people back off or back down on things like viability lines.
I am sorry to admit when I was in college I went to some event to write about it for a class called “feminists against abortions” or something like that. They knew what they were doing and played emotional games with vulnerable students. This was like 1998 so details are fuzzy but they had me recalling how my mother had abortions before me and toyed with my personal feelings about that and my birth even though my biological dad didn’t want me so I (too!) could have been aborted. They then pivoted to how “as feminists” we should be conflicted supporting a system where women were having these traumatic abortions that would 1) harm the women more than having the baby (!!!) and 2) “let men” know they could leave it to the women and the possibility of abortions versus being responsible men, assuming now they were against all contraceptives as well but they smartly avoided that topic. Sadly my mind at 18 was conflicted that night but obviously after thinking more about it I saw the bs but I can see how they use those same arguments to convince young Christian women that they are the “heroes” for women as well as “babies” even though without the repetitive brainwashing of these conservative political messages and church leaders they might see the truth. I think more and more we just need Democrat politicians realizing they are the heroes and having that courage of conviction that you women have.
I have posted in these comments before about how my mother died a very horrifying death from sepsis after some unknown infection sent her body into organ failure and what kind of “moral hero” pushes for all women to live under the threat of carrying around dead fetal tissue that can cause sepsis until some arbitrary time set by politicians? Seeing my mom suffer and moaning in torturous pain even in an induced coma state on morphine, etc as her body turned against itself and then after the heartbreaking decisions to do the central line, to try dialysis and then when only the machines kept her going to decide to remove those machines and then still wait over 24 hours for her to be free of her pain-ravaged body. Her chest was still heaving and her lungs so loudly gasping for every breath even though the ventilator was no longer forcing breath. Anyone who has been in a hospital on the “death watch” where you are just waiting and praying for the line to go flat on the screen and when they finally pass on there is such relief because it was inevitable and now you can finally begin to grieve. Have those people imagine what it would be like to have that person kept alive and even breaking and decomposing before your eyes.. all because inside their rotting body is a fetus some strangers think needs the chance to be born into its own death.
That is awful. I'm so sorry for you having gone through that experience. B/C as the commenter above stated, we're just "containers" Thanks @Madeleine Bolger. Ha, used it already.
Imagine? They just don't care. They're seeing it happen in real life & in real time & it's repulsive, disgusting, medieval, reprehensible, unparalleled cruelty. There is no equivalent human cruelty like that perpetrated against women in modern society.
Thank you Layla. To be clear my mom was in her early 60s and not pregnancy related but sepsis can happen so fast and furious and once it starts if immediate care… even with immediate care it is often horrendously fatal. So I think these detached non-total heartless bastards are just imagining these women are just carrying around something as non-threatening as periods. Not dead infectious tissue ticking death bombs. The worst of them would say no matter what we are just “containers” anyhow, so I would hope we are reaching the rest or the constituents that give them power. And saying we are exaggerating about women and girls facing death and doctors being limited in care for them… I just think we need to keep telling the real stories and not feeling the need to be polite about it.
Yes, I got it. You're welcome. Yeah, there was one MAGA/GOP woman who'd said something in response to women dying that she didn't know. OK, well, even if that were true before, she knows now. She, and the rest of them, need to act accordingly. "When you know better, you do better" That's what Maya Angelou says. But, these incredibly heartless fearless leaders don't want anyone to know anything about what is going on so they will be unable to do better.
They don't understand how lady parts work. They don't understand how infections work. Because, spoiler alert, they're not medical professionals. They're a bunch of priveleged dudes who have no clue and want us all to bow down or suffer. If I weren't disabled I'd be gone so fast. I actually researched how to relocate to Canada back during Trump's 1st turn at bat. I was doing some freelance work part-time back then, thought I'd be able to finagle something if things got worse. Then I got worse. So, I'm stuck here in a country where most of my fellow Americans despise me enough to want to go back to the 1950s b/c it was so great (but only if you were a white man). They want the world to be like Mad Men. They see that as glamorous. Sorry, I went off on a tangent. I really need to unplug & go get something done.
Lol yeah I get so riled up and comments longer and longer these days because you guys are the ones who make me feel sane and safe and heard.
(btw so funny you mention Mad Men which I am a fan of even through a lot of cringe.. showed Don Draper ended up a suicidal alcoholic because his 2.5 kids and blonde passive wife and picket fence did not fill the void in him after all. His boss lost most of his fortune and most of his health chasing younger and younger women until he finally found a woman (from Canada!) who was his age, his peer and equal.)
After season 1 I had to take a break for a long while b/c I wasn't prepared for how realisitic & gritty it'd be. I thought it was going to be glamorous 50s ad agency w/drama, fun, & good times. It was so much more than that. Like WTAF?!
Ditto on feeling more sane, safe, & heard w/people like you. it's good to know that some people are capable of rational, reasonable, compassionate discourse.
Ugh, West Virginia is the beginning of the Jesus billboards states - sick. How about we have some of these pastors call the police to report each time they abuse a child or know about the abuse of a child within their congregations.
Thank you and Karen for this disturbing and important discussion. So painful and heartbreaking
Tom Truman* didn't just come up with this out of thin air. All the reports miss the fact that this idea to prosecute women apparently stemmed from a case in May in which police arrested and charged a man named Daniel Lee Agnew for displacement and disinterment of a body after he allegedly "threw out" and "ran over" with his ATV the remains of his ex-girlfriend's fetus which she had purposely preserved. This after other allegations of domestic violence. For example, "according to the complaint, on May 10, a separate incident was reported where the victim and Agnew were reportedly driving in an ATV when he allegedly flipped the vehicle on purpose after becoming angry."
I point this out, because after all of that documented abuse carried about by a MAN towards a woman and a fetus, Tom Thurman's takeaway was that women must be punished for miscarriages. Not that the woman in this case was genuinely bereaved and didn't know how else to grieve her loss. But that somehow it was probably the woman's fault that she had a miscarriage, and not the man's fault that he was angry so he threw out and then repeatedly ran over her dead fetus.
Here's another link. It's gruesome but worth noting what police (and prosecutors) are willing to identify as a "body" under the law.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-charged-disinterment-body-035900837.html
Is it just me or is the guest audio hard to hear?
It’s not just you, her audio is terrible
Yeah, just turn yourself in. What could go wrong?
Christ, I hate this place more every day.
Absolute moron. What a waste of resources to tie up emergency services to report something like this. Think of how many actual emergencies will have delayed responses.
Yep, especially since they're pretending to be medical professionals by interfering in medical professionals' actual business. They're so infuriating. They don't know what they're talking about. Or some of them actually do & deliberately repeat lies, misinformation, & misconstrue information anyway.