Just what in the world is this Zoller person even talking about? Talk about gaslighting & delusion. That's so general & vague & you know when she says "patients" she means the fetuses. FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF! #FemaleOverFetus
> The Denver Post reports that the RISE Collective will open in a new location and under a different ownership structure—one where staff members have shares of the clinic.
This is really fuckin' good news! A new abortion clinic AND it's worker-owned too! I want to see far more of this!
As an actual bereaved parent, this is such bullshit. I was asked what I wanted done with my daughter's remains after her stillbirth, because it was *my* decision - mandating what is to be done with remains is so antithetical to the idea that this is for parents. I know folks here know this, but I've also done research on loss parents for my PhD - the biggest takeaway on how to support parents is doing what *they want* - assigning the meaning to the loss that they assign it. If what is lost in a miscarriage is simply blood and tissue to them, that is what it is. If what is lost is a baby to them, that is what is is. To bring anything legal into this time in someone's life is ghoulish. Again, I know I am preaching to the choir here, but this just makes me livid.
To me the quote from the forced birther in Georgia highlights the particular mix of evil and stupid we're dealing with in America today. I'm sure some forced birthers know her statement is a lie. I'm also quite sure that some forced birthers believe it to be true because the only thing they know about pregnancy is what their church taught them, and when given the choice between belief and fact they'll always choose the former.
We see this all the time, on every issue. It's not always easy to know when conservatives are lying and when they believe their nonsense. It shouldn't matter, when they are objectively wrong, but the problem is too many Americans have decided it's okay to have people who don't know anything making policy, because experts are 'elitists'. It's also been a right wing project to try to convince Americans that truth is unknowable, which always has disastrous outcomes.
Reality somehow needs to reassert itself. When and how are the questions.
I AM SO FURIOUS! Have these ignorant students ever heard of the menstrual cycle? How much blood and clots go down the toilet - on sheets - through tampons, pads and clothing? And women have miscarriages ALL the time! I wanted my son and I had THREE miscarriages before having him! ALL at HOME and ON THE TOILET!!!
Making laws and rules about "bereavement" for all miscarriages is also problematic because people have a variety of emotional responses to pregnancy loss, and especially early losses may be more like the loss of a possibility than the death of a family member. While women who miscarry need to be offered time off to take care of themselves, we should not be labeling it "bereavement leave." I wrote about it here: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/07/opinions/miscarriage-bereavement-leave-pregnancy-loss-new-zealand-freidenfelds
I am just imagining the wasteful spending of time, money and resources training cops to “investigate” “children’s” death, instead being used to shore up the lack in those areas to support investigating actual child abuse, or domestic abuse, or mental health issues that they already encounter and handle poorly. And the less women in vulnerable situations are able to have the option to prevent unsafe and unwanted pregnancies that might also be brought into those abusive and unstable environments… the more police will be encountering those things. But yes, let’s train officials to look through birth control and check our menstruation tracks and trash cans for fetal tissue. Cruelty to women (and power) is so the obvious point.
How are we supposed to police the criminalization of miscarriage disposal? The only practical place to do this is at a hospital. But even a hospital can't always police the outcome of a pregnancy. If a woman miscarries at home, how is the hospital supposed to know? Would she be required to report pregnancy outcomes to hospitals? That would mean everyone, regardless of outcome. What about a woman who tests positive for a pregnancy at home and the resumes her period a week later? That is also a miscarriage. Who knew? More legal fantasies unsupportable and unreasonable in enforcement from the antiabortionists.
A theme I’m seeing and we don’t talk about enough is that antiabortion women are holding the damn line. They are the faces of the powerful antiabortion organizations and they are the midwives in the hospital that reported that poor woman to the police (in the linked podcast). They are Lynn Fitch. These pathetic pick-mes need to be exposed, publicly shamed and humiliated around the clock.
They'd just start a crowd fund to "protect their families" & go on to win sympathy votes (& money) like that racist nutjob did after getting caught on camera yelling racial slurs at a poor black child at a park. For the life of me I don't know why that didn't end in arrest or a 5150. That level of racism is pathalogical. B/C hey, they're "just for standing up for life"
And they are usually cowards too that won’t do interviews and block all comments on their social media. Why isn’t there a campaign to bring this woman down.
Sigh. If you want my honest opinion, they are the same sort of women as the women who keep religious congregations going--even though they are barely considered to be human. In catholicism, they are the nuns and sisters---the ones who have a yardstick at the ready to whack any child who gets out of line in their classes. Some people may protest that I'm stereotyping these women, but--I. Grew. Up. With. Them. I know how they think, and I know what they're capable of. Perhaps in other traditions, they may be pick-mes, but in catholicism they have the little dribs and drabs of power--over other women and over children, let it be said, never over men--that the church allows them, and they cling to it for dear life.
So hospitals will turn miscarrying women away because they’re afraid to treat them. Then those women will be prosecuted because they have no way to “properly” dispose of the blood and tissue they lose. Miscarriage will automatically be a crime.
And, yeah, we'll be back to the 1950s again. I've told this story before: my mother had a miscarriage in January 1951 (her first pregnancy). The catholic hospital (looking at you, St Mary's in San Francisco) gave my dad some baby clothes, demanded a name from my parents, and sent my dad off--alone-- to bury the remains at the local catholic cemetery. I have always known that I had an older brother but was told he died at birth. Even the hospital and cemetery knew that this wasn't true: in the late 90s, I started digging through records and found out that the baby was listed by both the hospital and cemetery as "inviable fetus"--in other words, a miscarriage. Both my parents were traumatized: neither were offered anything except those baby clothes; neither of them would talk about the whole episode. And so we come circling around, more than 70 years later, for more of the same. WHY WON'T THESE GHOULS STOP TRAUMATIZING PEOPLE???
And I thought that episode of Shameless (UK) was weird. If you haven't seen it a woman married into a very Catholic family, has a miscarriage, & they make everyone attend the "funeral"; it was grotesque. There wasn't even an actual fetus b/c it was that early, they just buried an empty box, or sent something floating on the river or something. I forget. Sorry for the mild spoiler.
Not familiar with the episode but this is still relatively common in big catholic families today, and was even more common a couple of generations ago. My maternal grandmother was the youngest of 14 (count 'em!) kids, which--from the family tree I have--included at least a couple of miscarriages. Grandma Jo was actually "Josephine II" because there had been another Josephine who hadn't survived. She was not the only sibling who had a reused name. Oh, and the interesting part: only Grandma Jo (#14) and Great-Uncle John (#1--her oldest brother) lived to have kids. The others, listed on that family tree included: died in infancy, born dead, died in childhood, worked to death in cotton mill, died of TB at 12, 2 never married, ship's purser lost at sea, and more. My mom had 10 pregnancies, 7 living children, and she always said she wanted to outbreed her grandmother. Thus catholicism, in which the only two "choices" women had when I was a kid were nun or Cathollic Martyr Mother of Many.
"Catholic Martyr Mother of Many" That's a great title. That's what they all want for all of us now. Trad Wives & their online accounts. It's a nightmare to me. I didn't grow up Catholic, I grew up Fundie, but went to Catholic school (8 years). There's so much I didn't know about at all until I grew up & got away from all of it.
I never went to catholic school but 12 years of catechism (catholic Sunday school) was the equivalent in brainwashing. I can't count the number of times I got tossed out of catechism class for "asking impertinent questions", which is a whole story by itself. I was effectively the eldest kid and found out when I was just 19 that my parents had raised a big brood of unrepentent atheists (aged, at that point, upwards of 9.) Sometimes abuse and brainwashing doesn't work. The next generation, my nieces and nephew, followed suit. By the time my mom died, she was the only catholic remaining in the extended family.
"impertinent" = questions we can't answer, make us uncomfortable, or may make us doubt/question our own faith, & we all know that questions lead to doubt & doubt leads to sin, which is why people are so damn rigid about this stuff.
I was shut down early for those kinds of questions. I told my mom (who was also a preacher) when I was a kid I hoped that my wedding could be outside under a gazebo or something one day. She said that was Pagan & I should be married in the house of the Lord (as was good & proper-my emphasis & understanding). I said but God created all this so what's wrong with it? She just got flustered & waved it away like it was foolishness. I left her alone. She was mental & I never knew what she'd do.
I always felt more connected to the Divine when in nature (though I never told anyone) which is why I became a Wiccan/Neo-Pagan in 1996. Nature is my church. But, I prefer to live in a city. LOL
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/09/health/a-day-with-one-abortion-pill-prescriber.html
Just what in the world is this Zoller person even talking about? Talk about gaslighting & delusion. That's so general & vague & you know when she says "patients" she means the fetuses. FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF! #FemaleOverFetus
> The Denver Post reports that the RISE Collective will open in a new location and under a different ownership structure—one where staff members have shares of the clinic.
This is really fuckin' good news! A new abortion clinic AND it's worker-owned too! I want to see far more of this!
As an actual bereaved parent, this is such bullshit. I was asked what I wanted done with my daughter's remains after her stillbirth, because it was *my* decision - mandating what is to be done with remains is so antithetical to the idea that this is for parents. I know folks here know this, but I've also done research on loss parents for my PhD - the biggest takeaway on how to support parents is doing what *they want* - assigning the meaning to the loss that they assign it. If what is lost in a miscarriage is simply blood and tissue to them, that is what it is. If what is lost is a baby to them, that is what is is. To bring anything legal into this time in someone's life is ghoulish. Again, I know I am preaching to the choir here, but this just makes me livid.
Arg, these MFs!!!!!!! Thank you for bringing this out of their murky shadowlands, Jessica. Will share!
To me the quote from the forced birther in Georgia highlights the particular mix of evil and stupid we're dealing with in America today. I'm sure some forced birthers know her statement is a lie. I'm also quite sure that some forced birthers believe it to be true because the only thing they know about pregnancy is what their church taught them, and when given the choice between belief and fact they'll always choose the former.
We see this all the time, on every issue. It's not always easy to know when conservatives are lying and when they believe their nonsense. It shouldn't matter, when they are objectively wrong, but the problem is too many Americans have decided it's okay to have people who don't know anything making policy, because experts are 'elitists'. It's also been a right wing project to try to convince Americans that truth is unknowable, which always has disastrous outcomes.
Reality somehow needs to reassert itself. When and how are the questions.
“In Christianity, neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point.”
~Nietzsche
I AM SO FURIOUS! Have these ignorant students ever heard of the menstrual cycle? How much blood and clots go down the toilet - on sheets - through tampons, pads and clothing? And women have miscarriages ALL the time! I wanted my son and I had THREE miscarriages before having him! ALL at HOME and ON THE TOILET!!!
Making laws and rules about "bereavement" for all miscarriages is also problematic because people have a variety of emotional responses to pregnancy loss, and especially early losses may be more like the loss of a possibility than the death of a family member. While women who miscarry need to be offered time off to take care of themselves, we should not be labeling it "bereavement leave." I wrote about it here: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/07/opinions/miscarriage-bereavement-leave-pregnancy-loss-new-zealand-freidenfelds
I am just imagining the wasteful spending of time, money and resources training cops to “investigate” “children’s” death, instead being used to shore up the lack in those areas to support investigating actual child abuse, or domestic abuse, or mental health issues that they already encounter and handle poorly. And the less women in vulnerable situations are able to have the option to prevent unsafe and unwanted pregnancies that might also be brought into those abusive and unstable environments… the more police will be encountering those things. But yes, let’s train officials to look through birth control and check our menstruation tracks and trash cans for fetal tissue. Cruelty to women (and power) is so the obvious point.
How are we supposed to police the criminalization of miscarriage disposal? The only practical place to do this is at a hospital. But even a hospital can't always police the outcome of a pregnancy. If a woman miscarries at home, how is the hospital supposed to know? Would she be required to report pregnancy outcomes to hospitals? That would mean everyone, regardless of outcome. What about a woman who tests positive for a pregnancy at home and the resumes her period a week later? That is also a miscarriage. Who knew? More legal fantasies unsupportable and unreasonable in enforcement from the antiabortionists.
A theme I’m seeing and we don’t talk about enough is that antiabortion women are holding the damn line. They are the faces of the powerful antiabortion organizations and they are the midwives in the hospital that reported that poor woman to the police (in the linked podcast). They are Lynn Fitch. These pathetic pick-mes need to be exposed, publicly shamed and humiliated around the clock.
They'd just start a crowd fund to "protect their families" & go on to win sympathy votes (& money) like that racist nutjob did after getting caught on camera yelling racial slurs at a poor black child at a park. For the life of me I don't know why that didn't end in arrest or a 5150. That level of racism is pathalogical. B/C hey, they're "just for standing up for life"
And they are usually cowards too that won’t do interviews and block all comments on their social media. Why isn’t there a campaign to bring this woman down.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61789443.amp
Sigh. If you want my honest opinion, they are the same sort of women as the women who keep religious congregations going--even though they are barely considered to be human. In catholicism, they are the nuns and sisters---the ones who have a yardstick at the ready to whack any child who gets out of line in their classes. Some people may protest that I'm stereotyping these women, but--I. Grew. Up. With. Them. I know how they think, and I know what they're capable of. Perhaps in other traditions, they may be pick-mes, but in catholicism they have the little dribs and drabs of power--over other women and over children, let it be said, never over men--that the church allows them, and they cling to it for dear life.
There are a lot of "Aunt Lydia" types out there.
Indeed and I think we should shame them loudly and often.
Facts: Catholicism is the greatest abuser of women and children.
So hospitals will turn miscarrying women away because they’re afraid to treat them. Then those women will be prosecuted because they have no way to “properly” dispose of the blood and tissue they lose. Miscarriage will automatically be a crime.
And, yeah, we'll be back to the 1950s again. I've told this story before: my mother had a miscarriage in January 1951 (her first pregnancy). The catholic hospital (looking at you, St Mary's in San Francisco) gave my dad some baby clothes, demanded a name from my parents, and sent my dad off--alone-- to bury the remains at the local catholic cemetery. I have always known that I had an older brother but was told he died at birth. Even the hospital and cemetery knew that this wasn't true: in the late 90s, I started digging through records and found out that the baby was listed by both the hospital and cemetery as "inviable fetus"--in other words, a miscarriage. Both my parents were traumatized: neither were offered anything except those baby clothes; neither of them would talk about the whole episode. And so we come circling around, more than 70 years later, for more of the same. WHY WON'T THESE GHOULS STOP TRAUMATIZING PEOPLE???
And I thought that episode of Shameless (UK) was weird. If you haven't seen it a woman married into a very Catholic family, has a miscarriage, & they make everyone attend the "funeral"; it was grotesque. There wasn't even an actual fetus b/c it was that early, they just buried an empty box, or sent something floating on the river or something. I forget. Sorry for the mild spoiler.
Not familiar with the episode but this is still relatively common in big catholic families today, and was even more common a couple of generations ago. My maternal grandmother was the youngest of 14 (count 'em!) kids, which--from the family tree I have--included at least a couple of miscarriages. Grandma Jo was actually "Josephine II" because there had been another Josephine who hadn't survived. She was not the only sibling who had a reused name. Oh, and the interesting part: only Grandma Jo (#14) and Great-Uncle John (#1--her oldest brother) lived to have kids. The others, listed on that family tree included: died in infancy, born dead, died in childhood, worked to death in cotton mill, died of TB at 12, 2 never married, ship's purser lost at sea, and more. My mom had 10 pregnancies, 7 living children, and she always said she wanted to outbreed her grandmother. Thus catholicism, in which the only two "choices" women had when I was a kid were nun or Cathollic Martyr Mother of Many.
"Catholic Martyr Mother of Many" That's a great title. That's what they all want for all of us now. Trad Wives & their online accounts. It's a nightmare to me. I didn't grow up Catholic, I grew up Fundie, but went to Catholic school (8 years). There's so much I didn't know about at all until I grew up & got away from all of it.
I never went to catholic school but 12 years of catechism (catholic Sunday school) was the equivalent in brainwashing. I can't count the number of times I got tossed out of catechism class for "asking impertinent questions", which is a whole story by itself. I was effectively the eldest kid and found out when I was just 19 that my parents had raised a big brood of unrepentent atheists (aged, at that point, upwards of 9.) Sometimes abuse and brainwashing doesn't work. The next generation, my nieces and nephew, followed suit. By the time my mom died, she was the only catholic remaining in the extended family.
"impertinent" = questions we can't answer, make us uncomfortable, or may make us doubt/question our own faith, & we all know that questions lead to doubt & doubt leads to sin, which is why people are so damn rigid about this stuff.
I was shut down early for those kinds of questions. I told my mom (who was also a preacher) when I was a kid I hoped that my wedding could be outside under a gazebo or something one day. She said that was Pagan & I should be married in the house of the Lord (as was good & proper-my emphasis & understanding). I said but God created all this so what's wrong with it? She just got flustered & waved it away like it was foolishness. I left her alone. She was mental & I never knew what she'd do.
I always felt more connected to the Divine when in nature (though I never told anyone) which is why I became a Wiccan/Neo-Pagan in 1996. Nature is my church. But, I prefer to live in a city. LOL
Because they live for the cruelty they can inflict on others, under the guise of "religion".